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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2011 8:50:28 GMT
When trains arrive at the remodelled Tower Gateway station there are usually numerous exhortations to exit the train on the right as you face the direction of travel. The obvious idea is to have one-way pedestrian traffic, with those leaving the train using platform 2 and those joining using platform 1. There are always a number of folk who break ranks and ignore those requests. It must be possible to just open the platform 2 doors, let everyone leave the train, and only then open the platform 1 doors. Is there any reason why that doesn’t happen?
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Post by phillw48 on Jul 15, 2011 9:21:25 GMT
Dwell time?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2011 9:52:27 GMT
The trains are generally in the station for several minutes before departing again. Even a 30-second delay to open the platform 1 doors would probably have the desired effect. |
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Post by ianvisits on Jul 15, 2011 11:39:57 GMT
The trains are generally in the station for several minutes before departing again. Even a 30-second delay to open the platform 1 doors would probably have the desired effect. I've noticed that they are turning around almost instantly recently. A fact that caught me out the first time when a train pulled in and I casually wandered along the platform to my desired seating position as I expected a few minutes dwell time, only to see the doors close and it leave just a matter of seconds after the last passenger had got off. |
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Post by Deep Level on Jul 15, 2011 11:55:36 GMT
I too have thought about this many times, I'm sure 10 seconds would just about do it.
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Post by pib on Jul 15, 2011 13:09:19 GMT
Door enabling is an automatic operation once the train has stopped at the correct position, the PSA has no function in the opening of doors. I don't think there is any way with the current set up to delay enabling on one side. Also if only the right hand doors initially enabled you can bet that some folks would stand by the other doors until they enabled. Being a major tourist area, trying to get passengers to exit one particular way is nigh on impossible.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2011 8:46:39 GMT
Passengers have to leave by the left doors to use the Mansell St exit and so any delay to opening that side would anger those passengers.
The only way I can see that you can use to stop people using Plat 1 to exit the station via the concourse would be to put in a gateline in the concourse with a barrier so that only entry gates went to plat 1 and exit gates from plat 2.
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Post by Deep Level on Jul 16, 2011 11:29:22 GMT
That is actually a very good idea, why didn't I think of that  . As for the Mansell Street Exit, I think they only want this to be used as an entrance now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2011 19:03:30 GMT
Hello, me again.
Because we live down the Beckton line we use this station quite a lot with our visitors, coming home from a sightseeing at the Tower Bridge and other places, and its true. The visitors like to ride in the first carriage with the views, of course, and when walking down to the front, more than once it has been "peep peep" and the train just starts off before you can get to the nearest door. Which is very unfriendly to the customers.
I talked to a pleasant conductor once about this and he said they are instructed to close the doors instantly the peeps sound comes because precise punctuality is measured, but paying customers left standing on the platform are not.
Mr D says trains here used to have the conductor blow a big whistle just like the type used in the schools playground (and you see this in old films of trains as well) when they are about to leave, so why can this old fashioned technology not come back? Over in Russia, in the minute before the express train leaves St Petersburg to go to Moscow, there is stirring music played over the PA on the platform, I think it is by old Soviet/Estonian composer Arvo Part. Maybe not that far, but surely something can be done.
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Post by Deep Level on Jul 16, 2011 19:21:17 GMT
I'm not sure how it works now but in my younger days when I knew many PSAs and used to ride the DLR with them for no apparent reason and used to operate the trains (shh, don't tell the manager) the rules were that as soon as you hear the RTD (peep peep sound) you have to make sure there is no-one boarding or de-boarding (I think that is the correct term) the train and then close the doors.
I remember one time when I was operating a train from the EDP (at the front) and the RTD sounded at Mudchute and there was someone running for the train but we would've had to wait about 30 seconds before they actually reached the train so I closed the doors, immediately after the PSA reached for the buttons to re-enable the doors but it was too late I had already pressed Start and she said to me that I was 'out of order'. I then apologised for keeping her train on time.
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Post by radbod on Jul 17, 2011 10:10:22 GMT
These days, we are taught to anticipate RTD. This is pretty easy to do, as you can hear points moving, see PPIs changing, and hear the click when the VOBC changes ends at terminal stations.
Also, we are supposed to close the doors as soon as we judge all passengers have boarded/alighted. We are not to wait for 'runners' at terminal stations, and not hold trains at interchange stations unless the train is just arriving on the adjacent platform. This is particularly important on Stratford - Canary Wharf evening peak services, as dwell times at each end are less than 1 minute.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2011 12:22:15 GMT
Also, we are supposed to close the doors as soon as we judge all passengers have boarded/alighted. We are not to wait for 'runners' at terminal stations, and not hold trains at interchange stations unless the train is just arriving on the adjacent platform. I have to say, Mr/Ms Radbod, this isn't quite how it is. When walking with our visitors to the front of the train at Tower Gateway we were about halfway along the train itself, this was when they just had the two carriages, when the "peep peep" went, and the doors just ahead of us and behind us closed. That is not a "runner". But if we had heard a whistle, or a thing like that, we would have got in the back carriage. We had only passed the conductor in the back door a few seconds before. It is also not true on the DLR about the "unless just arriving", and this is from me who changes at Poplar regularly. Doors are closed when the train across is actually stopped and people are gong across. The worst though is Canning Town with groups of people coming up from a Jubilee Line train, and the doors being closed when half of them are in and half not. I have seen groups of people together who become split up by this, and shouting on the platform and banging on the doors. On one time a child was very nearly separated from its mother, which made me think as I was inside if I should have quickly pulled the emergency brake before we started if it had happened. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 17, 2011 12:38:05 GMT
Mr D says trains here used to have the conductor blow a big whistle just like the type used in the schools playground (and you see this in old films of trains as well) when they are about to leave, so why can this old fashioned technology not come back? Whistles were used on the mainline "heavy rail" network - the DLR is a light rail Metro with minimal dwell times in platforms. I have to say, Mr/Ms Radbod, this isn't quite how it is. When walking with our visitors to the front of the train at Tower Gateway we were about halfway along the train itself, this was when they just had the two carriages, when the "peep peep" went, and the doors just ahead of us and behind us closed. That is not a "runner". But if we had heard a whistle, or a thing like that, we would have got in the back carriage. We had only passed the conductor in the back door a few seconds before. I would imagine that DLR staff operate the same standard that I work to - if you have passed a doorway, you've had your chance to board. If you then carry on walking down the train, well that is your lookout. Metro services - and by that I mean the likes of LU or DLR - always always operate with minimum dwell times; you are expected to board or alight quickly via the nearest doorway. |
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Post by Deep Level on Jul 17, 2011 13:41:56 GMT
Mr D says trains here used to have the conductor blow a big whistle just like the type used in the schools playground (and you see this in old films of trains as well) when they are about to leave, so why can this old fashioned technology not come back? Whistles were used on the mainline "heavy rail" network - the DLR is a light rail Metro with minimal dwell times in platforms. I have to say, Mr/Ms Radbod, this isn't quite how it is. When walking with our visitors to the front of the train at Tower Gateway we were about halfway along the train itself, this was when they just had the two carriages, when the "peep peep" went, and the doors just ahead of us and behind us closed. That is not a "runner". But if we had heard a whistle, or a thing like that, we would have got in the back carriage. We had only passed the conductor in the back door a few seconds before. I would imagine that DLR staff operate the same standard that I work to - if you have passed a doorway, you've had your chance to board. If you then carry on walking down the train, well that is your lookout. Metro services - and by that I mean the likes of LU or DLR - always always operate with minimum dwell times; you are expected to board or alight quickly via the nearest doorway. This is possibly an argument for 2 car '3 unit' trains rather than 3 car '2 unit' trains that have seen suggested in other places. Obviously the problem with this is that you cant choose to have the current 2 car train capacity. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 17, 2011 20:10:06 GMT
I would imagine that DLR staff operate the same standard that I work to - if you have passed a doorway, you've had your chance to board. If you then carry on walking down the train, well that is your lookout. Metro services - and by that I mean the likes of LU or DLR - always always operate with minimum dwell times; you are expected to board or alight quickly via the nearest doorway. people don't join at the nearest door for all sorts of reasons: carriage full, rowdy occupants, door obstructed by luggage, door failed to open. After the peeps go there should be time to get to, and through, the nearest door before they close. I have been caught out on the Central Line several times by this - they don't give you enough time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2011 21:18:10 GMT
people don't join at the nearest door for all sorts of reasons: carriage full, rowdy occupants, door obstructed by luggage, door failed to open. After the peeps go there should be time to get to, and through, the nearest door before they close. I have been caught out on the Central Line several times by this - they don't give you enough time. Tower Gateway doesn't suffer from these issues to the same degree as The Central. From memory, at Tower gateway there is also a DMI indicating length of time until departure. If a passenger should miss the visual and audio signals which indicate the train is about to depart, then another train will be along within a short while. In that time, the sorry people who missed the recently departed train can either choose to reflect honestly or not upon the reasons for the delay to their journey. Either way, the train has departed.  |
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Post by ianvisits on Jul 18, 2011 8:18:06 GMT
There isn't a DMI at Tower Gateway - or more technically, if there is one, it doesn't work when I am using the station.
As to trains being along shortly, the average wait is 6 minutes in my experience.
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. As for the Mansell Street Exit, I think they only want this to be used as an entrance now.
