Picc to Uxbridge

[ikar]

I think that the Picc should be a Heathrow exclusively line and that District should take the Uxbridge branch.

[Deleted]

An interesting idea, which certainly seems logical. Especially soon with the Terminal 5 extension where there'll be two destinations at Heathrow, so it would be better to have all trains go to there rather than a menial service to Uxbridge.

The problem I forsee is that the District has enough branches at its West End already, adding an Uxbridge branch and attempting to maintain the same level of service as the Picc would surely be a strain on the line?

A compromise, IMO, would be to run Cockfosters to Heathrow and then have a Picc branch running between Acton Town and Uxbridge. Only a few trains would be needed for the Uxbridge branch, leaving more for Heathrow.

I'm just an Underground user, not staff, so whether that would be possible I don't know but it's fairly logical.

[Chris M]

I have no idea if this would be possible, but what about the Picc exchanging North Ealing to Uxbridge with the Central in exchange for the Central Line's service to Ealing Broadway.

Looking at a map of the area, I think the track configuration would be possible. I can't see a way to inergrate West Acton station into this proposal, unless you create a new branch of the H&C running Latimer Road - White City - West Acton - Ealing Broadway, sharing tracks with what is currently the Central Line but would be Central/Picc/not shared under my first proposal. This would require a new connection between the Central and H&C in the White City area, but it looks like it might be possible - although I don't know what the layout is going to be when they finish the redevelopment there.



Chris

[ikar]

But with District to Uxbridge the people from Rayners Lane to Uxbridge a 2 different ways to the city.

Mettropolitan- to the north center of the city
District- to the south center of the city

With the Piccadilly on Uxbridge branch their is only 1 way to the city because the Picc and the Mett join together and that is highly unnecessary

[Colin]

The easy way to do it is give Ealing Broadway to the Picc and the District takes Uxbridge, as the track work is already there.

The difficulty for the District is that there would not be enough stock, until the plastic stuff arrives anyway. Mind you, this idea has been knocked around for quite a while now - who know's what the future will hold.

[Chris M]

Aren't there clearance issues with sub-surface stock between Hangar Lane junction and Rayner's Lane?

[Colin]

yes, 15 mph under bridges.

[Dmitri]

awkward42 said:

Aren't there clearance issues with sub-surface stock between Hangar Lane junction and Rayner's Lane?

I think they can be (relatively) easily resolved - after all, the train doesn't get stuck on the way .

[Deleted]

colin said:

yes, 15 mph under bridges.

And that was only because track replacement and tamping have raised the track level just high enough to make surface stock trains a little nervous when passing under the bridges. If a line swap was to be done I suppose some remedial work would be needed to guarantee clearances.

As for swapping the lines, on the surface it would be simple - the Picc gets the use of Ealing Broadway, allowing it to divert trains away from that line towards Heathrow, while the users of the Harrow line get larger, more comfortable trains to take them into the city. The only issue, as already mentioned, is rolling stock allocations - if it were done right now, a serious drop in D stock diagrams to Richmond and Wimbledon would be required.

[ikar]

How many trains does District have and how many is needed for the current service?

[piccadillypilot]

awkward42 said:

Aren't there clearance issues with sub-surface stock between Hangar Lane junction and Rayner's Lane?

See the Hanger Lane Junction guide in my sig (although there is a scurrilous rumour that people on this forum have first hand experience of taking D stocks to South Harrow).

[ikar]

piccadillypilot said:

awkward42 said:

Aren't there clearance issues with sub-surface stock between Hangar Lane junction and Rayner's Lane?

See the Hanger Lane Junction guide in my sig (although there is a scurrilous rumour that people on this forum have first hand experience of taking D stocks to South Harrow).

I think that rumor is true

[Chris M]

Presumably if the line swap happened, then there would be more Picc trains than they needed, as I presume any increase in stock required for T5 has already been sorted/is currently being sorted.

Would there be any problems than in the District taking on the surplus tube stock trains, perhaps using it on the shorter journeys? It would also give time for the remedial work on the clearances to be carried out. The driver's would need to learn the new stock, but they would also need to learn the new route to Uxbridge - presumably they would be taking on some staff from the Picc who know the route, at least initially, and they would only need to learn the route east of Barons Court.

[ikar]

awkward42 said:

Presumably if the line swap happened, then there would be more Picc trains than they needed, as I presume any increase in stock required for T5 has already been sorted/is currently being sorted.

Would there be any problems than in the District taking on the surplus tube stock trains, perhaps using it on the shorter journeys? It would also give time for the remedial work on the clearances to be carried out. The driver's would need to learn the new stock, but they would also need to learn the new route to Uxbridge - presumably they would be taking on some staff from the Picc who know the route, at least initially, and they would only need to learn the route east of Barons Court.

Ther will be no inncrease of the stock on the picc because the former services was all trains: Hatton Cross-T4-T123-Hatton Cross

and with extension it will be 1/2 trains Hatton Cross-T4-T123-Hatton Cross and the other half will be Hatton Cross-T123-T5-T123-Hatton Cross

[Deleted]

on some cross-overs at Hanger lane there are 3 glass tubes hanging down, if a district train was to take this route it would smash the glass and activate something

[piccadillypilot]

descendingsadly said:

on some cross-overs at Hanger lane there are 3 glass tubes hanging down, if a district train was to take this route it would smash the glass and activate something

There are no Surface Stock Detectors at Hanger Lane Jnc as the route was/is used (legitimately) by other surface stock such as 'A's needing to get to Acton.

[Colin]

ikar said:

How many trains does District have and how many is needed for the current service?

There's a total of 75 six car D stock trains. We currently use 67 during the Mon-Fri peaks.


We also use 10 C stocks, which after recent events, is certainly not going to be increased.

[Deleted]

awkward42 said:

Would there be any problems than in the District taking on the surplus tube stock trains, perhaps using it on the shorter journeys? It would also give time for the remedial work on the clearances to be carried out. The driver's would need to learn the new stock, but they would also need to learn the new route to Uxbridge - presumably they would be taking on some staff from the Picc who know the route, at least initially, and they would only need to learn the route east of Barons Court.

It would be beneath the diginity of a District Line driver to drive a tube stock!
Seriously, though, we are already the only line to have to learn 2 stocks (C & D), making it 3 would be asking a lot.

descendingsadly said:

on some cross-overs at Hanger lane there are 3 glass tubes hanging down, if a district train was to take this route it would smash the glass and activate something

There are glass tubes filled with (liquid) mercury, which when broken break an electrical circuit that passes through the mercury, turning all the signals ahead to red. (I'm sure someone else will be able to describe it better than that).
This stops (big) District trains trying to enter (small) Piccadilly line tunnels, but as far as I know only at Barons Court. I'm not aware of any at Hanger Lane junction, or indeed of any route in that area that would be out of gauge, but I stand ready to be corrected!

[Colin]

The only other on the network is to stop the Met entering Jubilee tunnels.

[Tom]

There's also a set approaching Hounslow West W/B, and they are now filled with a silver conductive paint as mercury is prohibited under H&S rules.

[Phil]

tom said:

as mercury is prohibited under H&S rules.

So what about all the retardation controllers on every car of every item of rolling stock?

In any case the mercury is no hazard unless the glass IS broken (hopfully never)

Ye GODS is this H&S gone totally mad: I hate to think what they would have made of my (briefly) open baths of mercury when I was teaching

[q8]

Mercury was also used in the door interlocks of "R" and "A" stocks I beleive. I know for a certainty that "R" stock door interlocks had throw over galss tubes in a box attached to the door arm. They were quite possibly used on 59/62 ts as well.

[Dmitri]

rbruce1314 said:

I hate to think what they would have made of my (briefly) open baths of mercury when I was teaching

I think they'll have a heart attack ...

[towerman]

They had mercury interlocks on 59/62/67/72TS.ON 59/62TS if the glass broke there was mercury rolling around under the seat.On 67/72TS the mercury bottle was in a clear plastic thingy.