Get rid of Serco on the Beckton Branch

[Deleted]

Having used the Beckton branch of the DLR for the past 10 years i have now come to the conclusion that, enough is enough and the Mayor should strip Serco from running trains on the Beckton branch.
For years Serco have treated this branch and the customers who use it with the utmost contempt.
The last straw has come with the shambolic and utterly shameful way they are running the trains to and from Stratford.
Every morning i go to the upper platforms at Canning Town for the Beckton service during the morning peak. For every 1 Beckton service on the dot matrix there are 5 trains going to Woolwich, yet there are hardly anyone getting on the trains to Woolwich and the platform is packed with people wanting to get on the Beckton service.
The service pattern on this line seems to change no yearly, monthly or weekly but on a daily basis.
Are Serco managers making the service pattern up on the back of a fag packet every night?
As much as it pains me to say it the Mayor should go down the same road as the railways. One company to run the track, stations and infrastructure with different company's awarded contracts to run the trains on the different lines.
With a different company running the Beckton service they actually might care about it, something that Serco have never done.

[Chris M]

I don't frequently travel in the peaks, but one of my housemates commutes from Gallions Reach to Basildon via West Ham (the buses to Barking are slower and too unreliable, doubly so now they've closed every bus stop near the station) and he too complains of an oversupply of Woolwich trains and too few, overcrowded trains to Beckton from Canning Town. Ideally each branch should get 50% of the trains to/from Poplar and 50% of the trains to/from Stratford International. Selfishly this would be useful for me as I quite regularly need to travel Gallions to Stratford about 20 minutes before the first direct trains after the evening peak.

I'm not convinced though that the different operators model would work on the DLR (I'm not convinced it does on the mainline in most circumstances).

[radbod]

The service frequency is specified by the TfL subsidiary DLR Ltd. Serco run trains as specified by them and feed back any suggested changes to them.

From the next timetable change at the end of January, Woolwich Arsenal trains will be operated with 3 car trains, as specified by DLR.

I would suggest your rant is more accurately aimed at TfL.

[Deleted]

I think the organising of our Beckton trains has gone from simple to most strange. You see you have no idea where the Beckton trains are coming from at Canning Town, up on top, where they all used to be, or down to the new station where the trains sometimes come from Stratford now. When you come in by Jubilee Line there is no sign where the next one is. If you are in the front of the Jubilee there is one screen over the first escalator but from other parts of the platform you see nothing.

It changes every few hours, at the Rush hours trains are only on top, other times they are half on each, and weekends it is different every week and often the new station only, but whichever one you go to first it seems that today the trains are at the other, and then you just miss the next one while you walk over.

Whoever organised that one little screen with the information, half-hidden up where you do not naturally look, does not know how to present data, you have to focus hard and know all the lines because every DLR trains is mixed up on it and even the colours used are random. Mr Radbod, if you know who does the programming for this, please can you ask them to do it better so we all can understand it.

But please tell us, why are Beckton trains now every 5 minutes in the quietest times like evening and Sunday, but only every 10 minutes in the Rush Hour?

[radbod]

Again, the organising and presentation of the information is a question for DLR Ltd. Serco own little more than the pens on their staff's desks. DLR Ltd have duplicated just about every single management job in Serco. The staff toilet at Beckton station has been broken for over 3 months now. DLR Ltd own the infrastructure but won't pay for repairs. DLR managers report PSAs if they don't check their tickets on their way to work.

Unsurprisingly, this has led to a culture in Serco of not volunteering to do anything for DLR because of their attitude. DLR have not had to issue any Contract Improvement Notices to Serco because Serco haven't done anything wrong.

PSAs are dreading the Olympics because it WILL break down at some point. Whatever you do, keep away from the DLR during the Olympics and Paralympics. Since Boris Johnson stole most of DLR's budget to fund the construction of the cable car, don't hold your breath for any improvement.

[Deleted]

I recently went for an interview for an IT Service Delivery Manager role with Serco. I was appalled at the unprofessional way in which the interviewing manager conducted himself- arrogant, lacking knowledge of both his company's business and aspects of IT. The highlight of the interview was him ripping off the top of sugar sachets with his teeth and emptying them into my coffee!

If this sort of behavior in typical of Serco, I would agree that they need to be replaced.

XF

[Deleted]

Friday 13/01/12 at 11.00pm off the H&C at West Ham walk to the DLR platform. Was shocked to find that the screen at the top of the stairs giving train destinations was actually working (its been frozen for months) All trains going to Beckton, happy bunny.
Saturday 14/01/2012 at the same time all trains going to Woolwich
According to the tfl journey planner when i get to West Ham tonight at the same time the trains will be alternating between Beckton and Woolwich.
So on three consecutive nights we have three different service patterns, its beyond shambolic!
As for DLR dictating to Serco the service patters on the lines this is simply not true

I have taken the following from -http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/modesoftransport/dlr/1532.aspx

3.1 Subject to paragraph 3.2 the Franchisee shall schedule, publish and operate Train
Services on each day during and by reference to Train Service Hours which shall not be
less than the Base Service Hours specified below:
(a) Weekdays and Saturday from 0530 to 0030 (the next day);
(b) Sundays from 0700 to 2330,

I still believe the Beckton service would be better served by a different company than Serco let them run the trains to the wharf.

[andypurk]

Jan 15, 2012 20:54:37 GMT @gerryuk said:

Friday 13/01/12 at 11.00pm off the H&C at West Ham walk to the DLR platform. Was shocked to find that the screen at the top of the stairs giving train destinations was actually working (its been frozen for months) All trains going to Beckton, happy bunny.
Saturday 14/01/2012 at the same time all trains going to Woolwich
According to the tfl journey planner when i get to West Ham tonight at the same time the trains will be alternating between Beckton and Woolwich.
So on three consecutive nights we have three different service patterns, its beyond shambolic!

As Saturday 14th was advertised as the first try out of the planned Olympic timetable, then surely the timetable would be expected to be different from usual.

As for DLR dictating to Serco the service patters on the lines this is simply not true

I have taken the following from -http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/modesoftransport/dlr/1532.aspx

3.1 Subject to paragraph 3.2 the Franchisee shall schedule, publish and operate Train
Services on each day during and by reference to Train Service Hours which shall not be
less than the Base Service Hours specified below:
(a) Weekdays and Saturday from 0530 to 0030 (the next day);
(b) Sundays from 0700 to 2330,

I still believe the Beckton service would be better served by a different company than Serco let them run the trains to the wharf.

Try looking at the complete text in Schedule 2 on the page, especially the appendix to part 1, and then say that Serco is free to alter the timetable without consent of DLR Limited.

I fail to see how having a different operator on one branch of such a complex network would help anyone.

[Deleted]

A couple of points for Andy -

Friday 13/01/12 at 11.00pm off the H&C at West Ham walk to the DLR platform. Was shocked to find that the screen at the top of the stairs giving train destinations was actually working (its been frozen for months) All trains going to Beckton, happy bunny.
Saturday 14/01/2012 at the same time all trains going to Woolwich
According to the tfl journey planner when i get to West Ham tonight at the same time the trains will be alternating between Beckton and Woolwich.
So on three consecutive nights we have three different service patterns, its beyond shambolic!

As Saturday 14th was advertised as the first try out of the planned Olympic timetable, then surely the timetable would be expected to be different from usual

The point i am making about the changes to the service pattern is, there is no 'usual' service pattern, it keeps changing. This weekend is no different to every other week, we do not know whether we are coming or going with this service.

As for DLR dictating to Serco the service patters on the lines this is simply not true

I have taken the following from -http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/modesoftransport/dlr/1532.aspx

3.1 Subject to paragraph 3.2 the Franchisee shall schedule, publish and operate Train
Services on each day during and by reference to Train Service Hours which shall not be
less than the Base Service Hours specified below:
(a) Weekdays and Saturday from 0530 to 0030 (the next day);
(b) Sundays from 0700 to 2330.

Try looking at the complete text in Schedule 2 on the page, especially the appendix to part 1, and then say that Serco is free to alter the timetable without consent of DLR Limited

It says that the franchisee (Serco) will SCHEDULE and operate the trains and if the franchisee (Serco) want's to change anything they must get it in writing from DLR.
The way i am reading it, the service pattern on the Stratford route is down to Serco not the DLR. The DLR are just agreeing to Serco's schedule's.

I fail to see how having a different operator on one branch of such a complex network would help anyone.

Although a lot of people will disagree with me particularly on this board, the railways are far more complicated than the DLR and it seems to work with them.

[andypurk]

The section you are quoting covered the hours that the overall service runs, not the actual pattern. This is defined on the part I mentioned. But since you can't seem to see the relevant section of the Schedule 2 Part 1 Appendix. I can only quote the parts if it:

1. BASE SERVICE PLAN
1.1 Each of the tables in paragraph 2 below identifies in respect of a particular Base Time Period the maximum Interval for Train Services in both directions on each Line under each of Base Service Plans. The tables also identify those Train Services which shall require Trains made up of three Vehicles. Unless otherwise indicated all Trains shall consist of two Vehicles (unless otherwise agreed by DLR Limited).

1.2 The Franchisee shall schedule, publish and use its best endeavours to operate the Train Services in both directions on each Line so that no individual Interval (scheduled, published or operated) is more than two minutes greater than the maximum Interval specified and so that the average Interval (scheduled, published or operated) over any hour of any Service Time Period is no greater than the maximum Interval specified. The
maximum Interval specified for each Base Line shall apply to all Stations on that Line (including all intermediate Stations). The parties acknowledge that in order to create smooth transitions and permit reliable build up and ramp down between different Base Time Periods, the Franchisee shall not be obliged to operate the specified Interval during the first and last half an hour of each Peak Period provided that no individual Interval in such half hour period shall exceed the Interval specified for the immediately preceding or
following Base Time Period (as the case may be).

{SNIP}
1.6 Each Line specified in the Base Service Plan (whether duplicated or not) shall be treated as a separate Line and, notwithstanding that the route of one Line specified in the Base Service Plan coincides wholly or partly with the route of another Line or Lines, any particular Train Service may only count toward satisfaction of the specification of one such Line.

{SNIP}
2. MAXIMUM INTERVALS FOR BASE LINES
[Note – Click here to view]

The important Paragraph 2 is missing, presumably because it has been altered. But the quote section clearly states that each line has a service specified in the agreement with DLR Limited and that these services can only be altered by agreement with DLR Limited.

Can you tell me when the Beckton branch service keep changing? Weekends for the past several months have been affected by engineering works, but other than that the timetable is clearly advertised here:

www.tfl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1125.aspx

If Serco are not applying that timetable, then take it up with DLR Limited. The few times that I was in the area last year, all the schedules seems to be running fine at Canning Town.

I still fail to work out how you expect to fit a separate operator's services down the Beckton branch, unless you would just be having a simple shuttle train. Can you point me to another railway, with such a frequent service on a core section, which has more than one operator?

[superteacher]

As Andy says, you really can't replace Serco on just one branch. If they are replaced, it has to be for the whole DLR natwork.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2012 16:37:54 GMT @radbod said:

PSAs are dreading the Olympics because it WILL break down at some point.

Well it broke down on me twice yesterday, Monday, I know you all think I am the jinx (right word?) but it did. Lunchtime went over from Canary Wharf to Tower to see someone quickly, when I came back it was all stopped there, no useful messages, just Keep Everything with you All Times over and over again. Gave up, went back out and got taxi, was late for afternoon meeting. Then later came home and at Royal Victoria got stopped there, some announcement about now hold on in case of sudden stop, which I think is something to do with driver taking over. So late twice.

Someone can tell me, if I Oyster in at Tower and then out not having gone anywhere, is it sensible not to charge anything, does it know of the breakdown? It doesnt' tell you.

[Chris M]

Starting with the simple question first, yes "jinx" is the right word

What happens when you touch in and touch out at the same station is more complicated. Depending on the length of time between touches, certainly at barrier stations, it either charges you nothing, a small fee (used to be £1) or the maximum fare from that station. The timings were posted fairly recently in another thread but I can't find it at the moment.
If you do this because of disruption and incur a charge then any staffed ticket office or the oyster helpline will refund it without question (I had this about 3 years ago at Gants Hill where a suspension was announced after I'd been on the platforms about 2 minutes).

At stations with standalone readers it can be slightly different. A few years ago I was at Pontoon Dock when a suspension was announced not long after I'd touched in, but the standalone reader wouldn't register a touch out. I got a bus to Canning Town and the ticket office there sorted it without question.

As for last night, it was showing as severe delays on the Beckton branch when I touched in at Woodford, so I got off at Snaresbrook, walked to Wanstead and got the 101 home (thinking about it now the 262 from Stratford might have been quicker). When we passed Beckton station the displays were showing everything going to Prince Regent, so I guess there was a shuttle service running but that's just a guess. When I got in the TfL website was saying blaming an earlier signal failure at Canning Town.