Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 21, 2007 22:22:13 GMT
Travelling between Earl's Court and Leicester Square on the Picc on Friday, I was asked, apropos nothing, by an American couple whether LU stations had defibrillators or not? I know that major mainline stations (e.g. Paddington, Liverpool Street, etc) have them and I guessed that major LU stations would also have them, but I don't actually know.
After this they asked me whether they should alight at Leicester Square or Covent Garden for the Savoy. To which again I replied I didn't know, but suggested Leicester Square as Covent Garden gets very busy and is only a short walk from Covent Garden.
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Post by Tubeboy on Oct 21, 2007 23:56:50 GMT
Bank has one.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 22, 2007 0:44:49 GMT
Earls Court was one of the first to have them, initially as an experiment. There were three stations in the original trial - Earls Court, Bank/Monument and.....errmmm........I can't remember off hand It was definitely only three anyway. Following on from that trial, it has since been rolled out to quite a few stations across LUL - with locations being based mainly on previous history & consultation with the London Ambulance Service..........who are actually responsible for their presence. Only suitably qualified first aiders are able to use them as it is important to know whether or not a persons heart is 'fibrillating' - you could potentially deliver a fatal electric shock if the heart isn't in this state or you place the leads on a body incorrectly. LUL provide the additional training needed to it's qualified first aiders where required.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2007 7:37:12 GMT
Can't add anything, other than I was trained in them 3 years back and they are VERY easy to use. Idiot proof in fact.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2007 15:13:36 GMT
didn't baker street have 1? i remeber vaguely something in the staff magazine about someone using it to save life
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Post by c5 on Oct 22, 2007 16:02:08 GMT
There was at least one. I think it has been removed now. I'm sure I have seen some removed at a few stations...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2007 17:05:11 GMT
I'm pretty sure there is one at Liverpool Street too... I think it's on the wall by the gateline and Ticket windows.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2007 18:33:31 GMT
didn't baker street have 1? i remeber vaguely something in the staff magazine about someone using it to save life shouldbe Installed at all stations then
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 22, 2007 21:10:13 GMT
Not if the money spent installing them all could be better spent on something that would save more lives.
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Post by c5 on Oct 22, 2007 21:14:27 GMT
Not if the money spent installing them all could be better spent on something that would save more lives. And they are not cheap either. Plus the up keep cost. This would be dwarfed by staff training costs too, both in course costs and not being on a station, then the continual checking of comeptence! &c &c &c
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Post by jamesb on Oct 22, 2007 21:49:07 GMT
I would argue that the cost is worth it, because to save one life has great significance.
Also, isn't it better to have them even if there are no trained staff, then not to have them at all. In a large station, e.g. Euston, why could a PA for a medical doctor or paramedic be made - wouldn't it be the judgment of the individual at the scene whether or not they felt able to use it? Why does it have to be only LU staff?
Most AEDs are fool proof, and if they can't be over-ridden (assuming this type is in use) to deliver a shock against the advice of the machine, then the worst that can happen is they don't help?
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 22, 2007 21:56:15 GMT
Yes, but couldn't the large cost in installing and maintaining such instruments be better spent on saving lives in another way?
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Post by jamesb on Oct 22, 2007 22:10:52 GMT
I guess stopping people having heart attacks in the first place is a good way to spend money, but that costs more then a defibrillator... I would argue that the cost is worth it, because to save one life has great significance. Also, isn't it better to have them even if there are no trained staff, then not to have them at all. In a large station, e.g. Euston, why could a PA for a medical doctor or paramedic be made - wouldn't it be the judgment of the individual at the scene whether or not they felt able to use it? Why does it have to be only LU staff? Most AEDs are fool proof, and if they can't be over-ridden (assuming this type is in use) to deliver a shock against the advice of the machine, then the worst that can happen is they don't help? Having looked at the Resuscitation Council (UK) website, they say ' A prerequisite of providing such equipment is the necessity to have trained staff available who would be able to use the device.', but I still think it would be quite possible for someone other then LU staff to be present at most busy stations who might be trained to use one.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 23, 2007 1:38:45 GMT
In a large station, e.g. Euston, why could a PA for a medical doctor or paramedic be made - wouldn't it be the judgment of the individual at the scene whether or not they felt able to use it? Why does it have to be only LU staff? Ok, I'm a Doctor. Now prove I'm not! That was easy wasn't it?......... This scenario is up to the staff on the scene at the time - you just have to be careful here and use your own judgment as to whether such an action is necessary (making a PA), and then whether or not you trust that someone is who they say they are when they answer the call. Most AEDs are fool proof, and if they can't be over-ridden (assuming this type is in use) to deliver a shock against the advice of the machine, then the worst that can happen is they don't help? Yes the machine talks you through, but would you know where to place the leads on a body without being shown? Would know how to give rescue breaths (how many & what rate)/perfom CPR when the machine requests it? There are many people these days that do have the skills - and if you are one them, good stuff - but you can't just turn a defibrillator on and expect to use it without some basic training. Having looked at the Resuscitation Council (UK) website, they say ' A prerequisite of providing such equipment is the necessity to have trained staff available who would be able to use the device.', but I still think it would be quite possible for someone other then LU staff to be present at most busy stations who might be trained to use one. As I said before, LAS (London Ambulance service) are responsible for these machines - they pay for them - and I'm led to believe that in exchange LUL must agree to have a member station staff trained in it's use (as far as reasonably possible). shouldbe Installed at all stations then It's a two fold reason as to why they are not at every station - cost to LAS and staff training to LUL; plus as I said before, their location is based on previous history (of LAS callouts). Would I put one east of zone 1? Not likely!! It'd be gone within minutes hours of being fitted
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 23, 2007 7:25:27 GMT
I'd have thought that Canary Wharf would be a prime location for one, given the large volume of passengers who use the station and the large proportion of them that do a (stereotypically) very high stress job.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2007 15:33:31 GMT
Would I put one east of zone 1? Not likely!! It'd be gone within minutes hours of being fitted [/quote] you could put it in a tamper proof box maybe?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2007 17:35:04 GMT
I'm given to understand that if you open the box, an alarm will sound, plus the lights will start flashing...
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Post by chrish on Oct 23, 2007 17:45:54 GMT
I'm given to understand that if you open the box, an alarm will sound, plus the lights will start flashing... Can't say about the alarm, but there is a large blue light that flashes on the box when it has been opened., until such time as a key is brought out to reset it. Had one of these flashing at me at the Warwick Road exit of Earls Court, but the SS' key didn't work! No alarm heard though.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 23, 2007 21:58:40 GMT
you could put it in a tamper proof box maybe? And how would one access the defibrillator in an emergency? I'm given to understand that if you open the box, an alarm will sound, plus the lights will start flashing... That is absolutely correct - A* for you ;D ;D Had one of these flashing at me at the Warwick Road exit of Earls Court, but the SS' key didn't work! No alarm heard though. That should have been reported as defective - there should be an alarm; quite loud it is too!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2007 19:53:30 GMT
There was an interesting feature on this on a programme last night on tv.. unfortunately i can't remember which one.
Well - the long and short of it all was basically that in 6 years survival rates from non-hospital occurances of cardiac arrest had risen by 10% since 2001 - and the survival rate (they used a healthy discharge from hospital as the basis for this) - was up to 50% in cases where difribrillators had been used...
This must be a good thing?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2007 20:25:41 GMT
I think they are a good thing, and getting quite widely used now. I know Kennington has at least two and Waterloo has at least six. A few staff I know are not first aid trained, but are defib trained however.
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Post by jamesb on Jul 18, 2008 9:35:20 GMT
Reviving (pardon the pun) this old thread, I read today that 132 lives have been saved by defibrillators over a 6 year period, I wonder if any of them were on the tube?? news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7487850.stm
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2008 22:18:53 GMT
Canary Wharf would be a prime location for one, given the large volume of passengers who use the station and the large proportion of them that do a (stereotypically) very high stress job. All day coffee drinking and business lunches are quite high stress! I once worked in a heart scanning clinic in Canary Wharf and it was very quiet, as the demographic at the time was really too young in Canary Wharf. However, I think that all full time staffed stations should have a defib. They are relatively inexpensive, very easy to use (a recorded voice tells you what to do), and do save many lives!
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