DLR in manual mode

[signalfailure]

Hi guys

Just been thinking about the DLR and the rare event when it runs in manual mode.
How is the train driven? I dont remember seeing any signals when i was last on it so is there some sort of in-cab signaling? Also is there anyone on this board that is qualified to operate the DLR?

Many Thanks

Signalfailure

[c5]

At a guess they drive on line of sight, just like a tram. At sets of points there are indications to say which way they are set.

[100andthirty]

Under a panel at the at the end of each unit are basic driving controls. The Customer Services person is trained to drive in an emergency. There are no signals. Movement authority is given via the display on the driving controls - not certain exactly how, but something like a second needle on the speedometer

[Deleted]

Yep, that's how its done. Having experienced it first hand its not nice. They can only go a maximum of 10mph!

[Deleted]

The restricted manual mode is comparable to the Victoria Line's for obvious safety reasons. There have been too many crashes on other metro systems where the ATO has failed or drivers have keyed by train stops, and then a train has been driven into the back of another train at high speed in manual by inexperienced drivers. So although restricted manual decimates the service, it is very good for safety when ATP is not working!

[Deleted]

The point setting indicators do kind of act as signals, they can display a variety of arrows [left/right/ahead/whatever] but they also have a horizontal red bar as a stop aspect.

[signalfailure]

Oh I think i sort of understand. Does anyone have any video clips of the DLR being driven in manual mode or and close up pics of the train controls?

[Colin]

You could always ride the system in the hope you'll see it in the flesh - they do quite often have to drive a few yards into the next station if the train looses it's bearings

[compsci]

It is very likely that you will see the driving panel open on Friday and Saturday evenings. The train captain sits at the front, ready to push the emergency stop button should there be any alcohol fuelled antics.

[Oracle]

I once saw the lady CS person drive in manually into Stratford, as it seemed she wanted a short turn-round of 2 minutes. Can't see what difference it made.

[Deleted]

They usually have the control panels open when pulling into the 'dead-end' terminals [i.e. not bank which has loads of overrun], just in case the train 'forgets' to stop.

[gavelex]

The shunt mode is used when the train gets lost/thros it\'s dummy out (wich happens a bit) and on Sundays at about 0800 they go into coaded manual (kinda like the central with the beeps and buzzes) untill (what is meant to be) 0900- never lasts that long though!

[Deleted]

hardcastle said:

They usually have the control panels open when pulling into the 'dead-end' terminals [i.e. not bank which has loads of overrun], just in case the train 'forgets' to stop.

A rather flippant comment. As far as I'm aware the DLR has never had any serious terminus overrun incidents. In fact, I know of no serious overrun incidents on any moving block signalled metro systems. The DLRs signalling drives trains very slowly within approx 50m of any buffers. In the decceleration towards that 50m mark, the train control takes into account the potential for partial brake failure (25% I think), as well as positioning error (positioning being absolutely reconfirmed every 25m). With the exception of dead end termini, Seltrac always keeps the trains 50m away from the train or points (set against) ahead of the train.

[Deleted]

There was one incident before the railway opened, when a train over shot the original Island Gardens platform and ended up hanging over the road.

[jswallow]

There was, but in fairness to the DLR - this was on the railway prior to it being opened to the public and while the system was in a test mode (and more to the point, while unauthorised tests were being performed).

Source: catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/5.29.html#subj3

The Managing Director of Docklands Light Railway Limited, Cliff Bonnett, has said the accident which occurred at Island Gardens station on 10 March (Modern Railways, May) was primarily caused by unauthorised tests, carried out before required modifications had been carried out
at the southern terminus. The train, which ended up overhanging from the elevated track after crashing through buffers, would have been 'arrested' if the protection system 'in its full and modified form' had been installed. The train was being driven manually.

[Deleted]

upinthesky said:

There was one incident before the railway opened, when a train over shot the original Island Gardens platform and ended up hanging over the road.

In addition to jswallow's post, I should note that I was referring to safety on the DLR running under moving block signalling, and not under the old fixed block signalling.

There have only been a couple of dead end terminus incidents with fixed block automatic signalling around the world. A well known incident was during testing on BART. Another was on the Washington metro where a train overran a few stations due to ice, then as it had missed it's PACs, defaulted back to full performance, and promptly slid straight through a terminal and into a train in a siding.

Moving block & CBTC signalling have a impeccable safety record.

[abe]

100andthirty said:

Movement authority is given via the display on the driving controls - not certain exactly how, but something like a second needle on the speedometer

I checked this out yesterday. There is a fluorescent yellow needle on the speedometer indicating the speed of the train, and a fluorescent orange dot on a black or transparent needle that indicates the target speed. This jerks up in increments when the train leaves a station, but drops back smoothly on approach to a station, with the yellow needle following it closely. I wasn't close enough for a photo, unfortunately.

[Deleted]

abe said:

100andthirty said:

Movement authority is given via the display on the driving controls - not certain exactly how, but something like a second needle on the speedometer

I checked this out yesterday. There is a fluorescent yellow needle on the speedometer indicating the speed of the train, and a fluorescent orange dot on a black or transparent needle that indicates the target speed. This jerks up in increments when the train leaves a station, but drops back smoothly on approach to a station, with the yellow needle following it closely. I wasn't close enough for a photo, unfortunately.

I'm interested to know how drivers can drive accurately to the target speed without being tripped. On fixed block systems the drivers know that they must reach the target speed before the next block marker. However on moving block systems there is no positioning point. So the driver could just try and follow the "yellow" dot, but then there is no indicator of the tripping speed. Otherwise if the yellow dot is the tripping speed, it could be difficult to stay under it when you have nothing to aim for. It's thus not surprising that moving block systems are usually automated!

[jimini]

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but it seems appropriate...

Last night about 2200, I was sat at the back of a Lewisham train at Limehouse station. Looking back towards Shadwell, the westbound train that passed us did so very slowly, and it had two flashing amber lights on the back, next to the usual red ones. My question is: Are these flashing amber lights used to show that the train is being driven in manual mode? This would tie in with the slow speed the train was proceeding at.

If anyone could confirm / deny for me, it'd be much appreciated!

Jim.

[franknapo]

Oct 18, 2008 16:46:29 GMT jimini said:

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but it seems appropriate...

Last night about 2200, I was sat at the back of a Lewisham train at Limehouse station. Looking back towards Shadwell, the westbound train that passed us did so very slowly, and it had two flashing amber lights on the back, next to the usual red ones. My question is: Are these flashing amber lights used to show that the train is being driven in manual mode? This would tie in with the slow speed the train was proceeding at.

If anyone could confirm / deny for me, it'd be much appreciated!

Jim.

Correct you got it in one. It was driving in E/Shunt hence the flashing ambers

[jimini]

Oct 19, 2008 0:45:31 GMT @franknapo said:

Correct you got it in one. It was driving in E/Shunt hence the flashing ambers

Excellent, thanks, I thought so. One final question then: any specific reason for that to be occurring at that time, or just a mere coincidence?

[superteacher]

I believe the 1992 stock on the Central has a flashing orange light when being driven in restricited manual, rather like the DLR.