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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 10:23:30 GMT
The signals at Bromley were reported as vandalised this morning and the H&C has been suspended. However, the DL is reported as running with minor delays. Is that true?
My missus had long delays this morning on the DL but the TFL website and BBC weren't reporting problems on the DL only H&C.
Don't both lines use the same set of signals?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 12, 2012 11:12:38 GMT
I have moved this to the more appropriate SSR Group area....
The signal that failed was FBX901, the signal half way up the hill after departing Bow Road eastbound.
The Hammersmith & City line was suspended between Barking & Moorgate whilst the District ran through with delays. Some District trains were reversed back westbound at Mansion House but we did block black all morning to Whitechapel, eventually passing FBX901 some 25 minutes later.
Stations were putting out minor delays for the District - whether or not a 25 minute delay is considered minor is really another subject matter in its own right - what the BBC or the TfL website did is for them to answer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 18:17:46 GMT
But why was the H&C suspended? Would it just have been impracticable to run it?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 12, 2012 18:26:54 GMT
We were losing 25 minutes between Whitechapel and Bromley-by-Bow - I would say it was absolutely impracticable!!  By cutting the H&C trains short they were able to maintain a "good" service on the rest of their line. It also meant less trains trying to pass through the failure area. If 'they' had tried to run the H&C service through there too the blocking back would have reached Aldgate East and would then almost certainly back on to the Circle & Metropolitan services.... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 20:23:28 GMT
Does anyone know why whitechapel is no getting used to turn trains round? I would have said it would have been a useful place to turn trains round.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 20:44:38 GMT
Since the station is now just 2 platforms due to the Crossrail work the bay platform for H&C was taken out some time ago.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 23:10:27 GMT
It was not vandalism. The cables were on the ground as vegetation control staff were controlling the vegetation. Hopefully no one was injured.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 6:19:04 GMT
Since the station is now just 2 platforms due to the Crossrail work the bay platform for H&C was taken out some time ago. You can still reverse trains in both directions using the crossovers at each end of the train. |
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Post by Colin on Sept 13, 2012 7:07:05 GMT
It was not vandalism. The cables were on the ground as vegetation control staff were controlling the vegetation. Hopefully no one was injured. I wonder where you get your information from  The incident kicked off with the first train to pass through the area, at 5.40 am. All was well up until the last train the night before. "vegetation control staff" don't work nights  Initially a blown fuse was found and replaced, then cables were found to have been cut in two different locations (hence the blown fuse). Although the service managers report (my source of information) dosen't specifically mention vandalism, cables that have been cut by persons unknown during the night would tend to suggest that it was indeed vandalism. You can still reverse trains in both directions using the crossovers at each end of the train. Only if a signaller is present in the cabin!! Whitechapel signal cabin is no longer staffed 24/7 hence all signals at that location now having illuminated A's Of course if you do reverse a train there you will delay the service in both directions whilst the driver changes ends and carries out the move - so reversing there is not desirable at all. |
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Post by Harsig on Sept 13, 2012 8:09:45 GMT
Only if a signaller is present in the cabin!! Whitechapel signal cabin is no longer staffed 24/7. It isn't? I wonder if they've told the signalmen at Whitechapel that. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 8:51:20 GMT
ColinVegetation control staff do work nights or start early in the morning 0430-0500
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Post by Colin on Sept 13, 2012 10:01:33 GMT
It isn't? I wonder if they've told the signalmen at Whitechapel that. Well if it is being staffed 24/7, why are us drivers being lied to? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 13:05:08 GMT
Lots of people are lied to - staff and passengers alike! It's a way of life
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 13, 2012 14:11:52 GMT
Only if a signaller is present in the cabin!! Whitechapel signal cabin is no longer staffed 24/7. It isn't? I wonder if they've told the signalmen at Whitechapel that. Why would the 'A' lights be lit at about 1520, if the box isn't switched out? I went through there at 1519½ on my way to ring at Bow Church and the 'A' light was on at EN 36:  OK, that's the co-actor, but all the other ENs had the 'A' lights up. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 13, 2012 15:11:02 GMT
London Underground signal cabins do not switch out like they on Network rail, a cabin can have a signalman(woman), the 'A' lights are on because the king lever is reversed.
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 13, 2012 16:05:11 GMT
London Underground signal cabins do not switch out like they on Network rail, a cabin can have a signalman(woman), the 'A' lights are on because the king lever is reversed. Hang on a mo - if the King is reversed then the points are locked; therefore AIUI the box can be left unstaffed. That is certainly my understanding having looked at dog charts for B, K, and N frames, plus sundry bookwirings. With the King reversed, the TD circuitry would be switched through (and I can't immediately think if anywhere on the system that had intervention for TD description that was actually built. Finsbury Park No 7 would have had intervention if trains reversed off the bottom end handworked crossover at Finsbury Park High Level). I don't understand what you mean by 'doesn't switch out like NR' - if it places the 'box into a condition where there is no need for any lever to be operated then surely it has switched out? I'm well aware of the differences between UndergrounD 'TCB' and NR-style TCB or description working. Or, because Whitechapel is such a bastardised system compared to what has been before, are you saying that the 'box is permanently manned, but the king lever remains reverse until points are actually needed. Seems very odd, if you ask me. Are the TD facilities either side mutually incompatible and need someone there to pass the descriptions through? |
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Post by DWS on Sept 13, 2012 17:23:35 GMT
London Underground signal cabins do not switch out like they on Network rail, a cabin can have a signalman(woman), the 'A' lights are on because the king lever is reversed. Hang on a mo - if the King is reversed then the points are locked; therefore AIUI the box can be left unstaffed. That is certainly my understanding having looked at dog charts for B, K, and N frames, plus sundry bookwirings. With the King reversed, the TD circuitry would be switched through (and I can't immediately think if anywhere on the system that had intervention for TD description that was actually built. Finsbury Park No 7 would have had intervention if trains reversed off the bottom end handworked crossover at Finsbury Park High Level). I don't understand what you mean by 'doesn't switch out like NR' - if it places the 'box into a condition where there is no need for any lever to be operated then surely it has switched out? I'm well aware of the differences between UndergrounD 'TCB' and NR-style TCB or description working. Or, because Whitechapel is such a bastardised system compared to what has been before, are you saying that the 'box is permanently manned, but the king lever remains reverse until points are actually needed. Seems very odd, if you ask me. Are the TD facilities either side mutually incompatible and need someone there to pass the descriptions through? The descriptions do need any intervention from the signalman, the only time is if a TD is wrong. Whitechapel box still has staff, the use of the king levers does not mean it is unstaffed. The box will remain untill resignalling when controll moves to the new SSR control centre. |
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Post by DWS on Sept 13, 2012 17:29:48 GMT
It isn't? I wonder if they've told the signalmen at Whitechapel that. Well if it is being staffed 24/7, why are us drivers being lied to? Were did this information come from, If it was the case that the cabin was unstaffed, the RMT union would be on the case. If you recall it was a signalman who carried the flame on the D stock, I have known him many years and he is still at Whitechapel signal cabin. |
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 13, 2012 17:35:25 GMT
Whitechapel box still has staff, the use of the king levers does not mean it is unstaffed. But that means that meaning of the 'A' light has changed between Totteridge and Whetstone and Whitechapel. Was there a period of time when T&W was still in and EN had the 'A's. If use of the kings means that it isn't unstaffed why provide them? |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 13, 2012 17:45:47 GMT
Whitechapel box still has staff, the use of the king levers does not mean it is unstaffed. But that means that meaning of the 'A' light has changed between Totteridge and Whetstone and Whitechapel. Was there a period of time when T&W was still in and EN had the 'A's. If use of the kings means that it isn't unstaffed why provide them? The box could be unstaffed at some point, strike, sickness etc, for some reason when the area was modernized some one thought we now have lots of spare leavers lets put in king leavers and "A" signs! |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 13, 2012 21:27:29 GMT
Were did this information come from, If it was the case that the cabin was unstaffed, the RMT union would be on the case. I am fairly certain it was in a traffic circular or two........I'm very busy this weekend but I'll try and dig up the relevant info if you can bear with me..... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 22:04:37 GMT
Whitechapel cabin is still staffed 24/7 as you say its in Auto mode but they still book trains and if need be take the site out of auto and intervene. The signal failure at Bromley was due to the vegatation gang cutting through 2 cables not by vandals.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 22:37:38 GMT
Whitechapel cabin is still staffed 24/7 as you say its in Auto mode but they still book trains and if need be take the site out of auto and intervene. The signal failure at Bromley was due to the vegatation gang cutting through 2 cables not by vandals. Thanks for corroborating my information there DistrictSOM. |
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