class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 20, 2013 12:19:04 GMT
Having been watching the (non) progress of S7 introduction on the H&C on the TfL forum I note that whereas the S7 intro thread was being updated every 10-14 days there has been no update for well over a month. Have Bombardier suspended production of the S7s? I ask because you have to wonder where they would put them all! They can only have a finite amount of storage at their site and at the test site and even if LU have room to store a lot of 'spares' they are not being delivered. The behaviour of TfL concerning this is odd to say the least. For some years they had posters and leaflets saying that the new stock would be introduced 'next year'. There are still posters up saying that they are currently introducing the new stock and yet they are quite clearly not. There does not appear to be any rational explanation as to why the have got it wrong over and over again. They must have known from way back that they would need to train staff and, it hardly makes sense that this is the cause of the current delay as even if they could only be trained slowly you would expect newly certified drivers to become available on a regular basis. (Unless thy are planning to shut down the H&C for a month to train them all en-mass  .) |
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 20, 2013 15:56:05 GMT
Training is not the issue I believe. Someone with greater involvement will need to answer this particular question...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 22:19:03 GMT
Could it be that it is difficult to use S7s on the H&C, without also using them on the Circle and thus that they are waiting until Liverpool Street-Edgware Road via Victoria is S7 ready before continuing the roll out?
Obviously if you just did the the H&C first all trains from Barking would have to go back to Barking after reversing at Hammersmith, and all Circle trains would have to remain Circle after a while.
Also, it appears to me as if those S7s which are in use are hardly being used at all outside of the morning peak! I travel back on the H&C from Mile End to Kings X every day, but have only yet got on an S7 once going westbound! (time varies between 2 and 6/7). But in the morning it is now more common to catch an S7 than a C. Any reason for that?
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Post by causton on Feb 20, 2013 23:44:42 GMT
Do you just travel out at a similar time each day, coinciding with the booked path of one of the S7 trains? Don't forget they are normally allocated to specific diagrams, so if they do run will run at the same times each day "possible" for them to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 23:50:52 GMT
I managed to get S stock twice going Westbound towards Hammersmith (T245).
It arrives at Shepherd's Bush Market at around 07:50, maybe earler, maybe later.
Strangely, I tried to find that S stock and I never succeeded, but there's always the 16:20 going East (T261) at Hammersmith.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 21, 2013 1:14:22 GMT
I got my first ride on an S7 today, Hammersmith to Edgware Road, while out photographing for the quiz. They don't half make the C stocks look knackered.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 21, 2013 8:35:08 GMT
Could it be that it is difficult to use S7s on the H&C, without also using them on the Circle and thus that they are waiting until Liverpool Street-Edgware Road via Victoria is S7 ready before continuing the roll out? Obviously if you just did the the H&C first all trains from Barking would have to go back to Barking after reversing at Hammersmith, and all Circle trains would have to remain Circle after a while. At first sight that seems a possibility but could it really be the case that LU managers are so dense that they didn't realise that this would be a problem and made their announcements about the introduction of the stock (several times) and then found that they couldn't actually be used? Whatever the reason it seems that there has been some monumental cock-up that has resulted in several millions of £'s worth of new trains waiting uselessly at the test track and (as far as we can tell), production ceased - while TfL are still putting up posters saying that the stock is being introduced. I wonder if a 'Freedom of Information' request would elicit some concrete information as to what has gone wrong. |
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Rich32
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Post by Rich32 on Feb 21, 2013 8:37:38 GMT
I think you'll find the reason why there appear to be hardly any S7's, is that they are S7+1 and working on the Met temporarily, whilst the S8's are being modified at Derby. Indeed I had a little chuckle the other day as I noticed an S7+1 on a Chesham Fast |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Feb 21, 2013 9:06:35 GMT
I think you'll find the reason why there appear to be hardly any S7's, is that they are S7+1 and working on the Met temporarily, whilst the S8's are being modified at Derby. That would imply that they have one hell of a lot of S8's at Derby at the moment. Why are they not repairing them and sending them back? Surely it does not take the entire production capacity just to carry out the repairs. It also doesn't explain the great stack of new S7's sitting at the text track. And the TfL forum site lists only three S7+1 sets (the same three) as having been delivered and in use on the Met. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 10:02:43 GMT
Do you just travel out at a similar time each day, coinciding with the booked path of one of the S7 trains? Don't forget they are normally allocated to specific diagrams, so if they do run will run at the same times each day "possible" for them to. No, not always. Quite often the 150 Years one turns up at 8:09, but I travel at slightly different times throughout the week and still find S7s more often than not AM, but Cs almost exclusively PM. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 21, 2013 15:24:20 GMT
Have Bombardier suspended production of the S7s? The behaviour of TfL concerning this is odd to say the least. For some years they had posters and leaflets saying that the new stock would be introduced 'next year'. There are still posters up saying that they are currently introducing the new stock and yet they are quite clearly not. I understand that Bombardier have not stopped production of S7s. S7s have been and are being introduced "this year", July 2012 saw them onto the H&C to Moorgate, December 2012 extended to Barking. 2013 has seen more trains delivered and available to operate, currently 8. Further into 2013 more S7 trains will be delivered, C Stock withdrawals will increase, S7s will be introduced on the Circle Line from May and on the Wimbledon-Edgware Road section towards the end of the year. TfL/LU are sticking to their targets. Could it be that it is difficult to use S7s on the H&C, without also using them on the Circle and thus that they are waiting until Liverpool Street-Edgware Road via Victoria is S7 ready before continuing the roll out? Currently the H&C and Circle are separated regards to rolling stock allocation. |
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Post by domh245 on Feb 21, 2013 15:46:56 GMT
TfL/LU are sticking to their targets. If TfL are sticking to their targets,does that mean that they were ahead of schedule!?!? |
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l1group
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Post by l1group on Feb 21, 2013 16:39:29 GMT
I have been on an S7+1 (to Chesham and back), and there is commonly a S7 Mon-Fri afternoon peaks that my friend and I normally wait for at Hammersmith (well, we used to do that). Always arrives approx 1610-1620, and is normally run in by people from my school. Always H'smith and City and to Barking. Also once the 150th anniversary once, one time. I think that was 21/01/13 when I got that one at Hammersmith...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 17:29:50 GMT
Am I right in assuming that all S7 stock is currently in use as S7+1 stock on the Metropolitan Line at present?
Trying to catch up with what's where...
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 21, 2013 18:19:33 GMT
Am I right in assuming that all S7 stock is currently in use as S7+1 stock on the Metropolitan Line at present? Trying to catch up with what's where... 3 S7+1 are in service on the MET. 8 S7 are available for service on the H&C, for use on the (currently) 4 available workings. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2013 20:04:31 GMT
From what i have seen reported only ONE S7 has been delivered this year
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 22, 2013 0:03:34 GMT
21314 was the one I caught on Wednesday when it formed train 261 from Hammersmith to Barking circa 16:22 (there are no times visible in the photo of it, but based on the EXIF of a photograph earlier that day at Heathrow my camera's clock is 1 hour 8 minutes ahead of LU's)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 6:33:33 GMT
As a District Line driver I have only passed an S7 on the H&C twice, in total!! (both times as set 261)
The infrastructure on the Circle is not all in place, however The H&C and Circle trains no longer interwork, so that is not the issue.
As at the beginning of January there were just three T/Ops at Barking depot trained to drive them, so I suspect that is the issue. The training in Nov and Dec was cancelled as it was causing C stock cancellations. Since Jan staffing has been boosted and training is now full on.
LU may be "on target" but certainly not its original target, the advantage with targets is that you can revise them!!
Last I heard, however the District may get one to start training with earlier than originally intended.
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Post by revupminster on Feb 24, 2013 7:13:09 GMT
S7 still in Upminster depot, Over two months now.
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Post by plasmid on Feb 25, 2013 19:21:17 GMT
As a District Line driver I have only passed an S7 on the H&C twice, in total!! (both times as set 261) I've seen the one and only S7 about 6 times now in the last two weeks. It passes Mile End at around 17:25pm whilst I'm on the Central Line Eastbound. |
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Post by domh245 on Feb 25, 2013 19:39:31 GMT
There are 7 out and about, and 1 at Neasden (having been delivered, not as a Metropolitan) Clicky and one or two S7 trains on the Hammersmith and City |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2013 9:11:09 GMT
I have boarded the H&C 's-hit stock' twice around 8:25am at Baker St. I think the Drivers need a little more practice as on both days it took a few attempts to align the train so the doors would open!
Today was more interesting. After chasing the train back and forth on the platform, we boarded and started to set off. There must have been a door fault which triggered the brakes as we were all sent flying! A member of station staff then kicked the offending door and we were on our way again! Made me smile first thing in the morning!
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Post by revupminster on Mar 1, 2013 10:39:41 GMT
I look every Friday morning when driving up Front Lane and 21304, I presume, is still in Upminster depot. It is always has it's lights on and the destination blind going through it's routine. and sometimes people in the cab.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 22:58:27 GMT
Managed to catch an S7 from West Ham tonight on the H&C ,being trying for weeks to catch one, very nice ride up to Kings Cross.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2013 23:13:58 GMT
There are at least 35 S7's built. There are a fair few at Derby and a fair few at Old Dalby. Think there are a couple of S8's at a time at Derby.
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Post by revupminster on Mar 10, 2013 0:03:48 GMT
Passed the Upminster depot this evening and the S7 is on a different road so it does move.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Mar 10, 2013 9:05:38 GMT
We are now at two months with no noted deliveries or change in status for the H&C S7's on the previously regularly updated tfl forum site.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 12:27:46 GMT
One is planned for delivery "sometime" this week - if indeed it happens. We´ll see.
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Post by domh245 on Mar 10, 2013 13:20:39 GMT
One is planned for delivery "sometime" this week - if indeed it happens. We´ll see. Gosh, you can't help but wonder if the commisioning people still remember how to do their job!  |
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Post by fleetline on May 7, 2013 17:02:58 GMT
I saw an S7 in service heading towards Hammersmith on the H&C platform at Baker Street on Sunday (around 1600). Are they ad hoc diagrams now to?
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