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Post by grahamhewett on Mar 11, 2013 10:16:50 GMT
I had not noticed before until studying Bakerloo WTT38 that there were a number of sleet workings (741 and 742) that ran to Kilburn High Road to turn. A couple of questions - has this been going on long (presumably, it has)? And is this a unique example of LU trains running over NR metals on a section that has no public LU service? (For sure, there plenty of examples of LU running in service over NR metals, despite the best efforts to tidy up the situation in 1994). For some reason, these trains don't seem to appear in the NR WTT section CB - again, why?.
GH
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Post by stevo on Mar 11, 2013 10:37:15 GMT
Logically for as long as there have been sleet workings. Queen's Park is the border between the open section and the tunnel section on the Bakerloo and Kilburn High Road is the only available crossover for southbound trains reversing at Queen's Park. This would appear to be a unique situation due to the Barons Court style layout of Queen's Park station.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2013 12:44:42 GMT
There have been ´rusty rail´moves to KHR since the new signalling was commissioned back in December 1988, plus sleet trains when necessary. Prior to that it was possible to run to KHR, but only if the small box (ground frame?) was manned - very unlikely, although the 1938 tour did reverse there under the old signalling, to some superb arcing on the negative rail, even though a pair of battery locos had previously visited to clear the tracks.
When I was a Bakerloo Controller, and also as Relief, I never heard of a Bakerloo going to KHR, although that is not to say it didn´t. Then trains had to reverse via the crssover south of the staiion - and remember to stop (or Euston here we come).
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l1group
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Post by l1group on Mar 14, 2013 16:38:52 GMT
And is this a unique example of LU trains running over NR metals on a section that has no public LU service? Presently, probably so. But, when Croxley Green depot was still open - LU trains ran over NR metals between Watford High St and Croxley Green Depot, and I think there wasn't public LU service. This was Bakerloo line. |
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Post by motorman on Mar 14, 2013 20:50:03 GMT
A what if scenario - could it be possible for a LUL train to proceed beyond KHR? If that happened would there be an electrical failure to the train when the 4th rail runs out to the south of the station or would it simply stall? Is there any device to prevent this from happening?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 14, 2013 21:18:27 GMT
A what if scenario - could it be possible for a LUL train to proceed beyond KHR? If that happened would there be an electrical failure to the train when the 4th rail runs out to the south of the station or would it simply stall? Is there any device to prevent this from happening? As each motor car passes the end of the 4th rail there would be no complete circuit so the equipment (motors, compressors, MGs, heaters) would die. The train would continue to roll (unless on up gradient!) until a brake is applied. |
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Post by d7666 on Mar 14, 2013 21:29:31 GMT
And is this a unique example of LU trains running over NR metals on a section that has no public LU service? Presently, probably so. But, when Croxley Green depot was still open - LU trains ran over NR metals between Watford High St and Croxley Green Depot, and I think there wasn't public LU service. This was Bakerloo line.  Pedantically I could point out NR means NetworkRail - and Bakerloo to Watford Junction ceased long long before NetworkRail was thought of, but I know what you meant! If past moves to/from depots count, and the question includes NR / RT / BR / predecessors, then wasn't there a period of tube stock transfers between the Northern City branch via BR Finsbury Park, BR Kings Cross and to the Widened Lines ? -- Nick |
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Post by motorman on Mar 14, 2013 21:34:00 GMT
That would make sense. No chance of a 72 mk2 reaching Euston then!!!
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Post by carltona on Mar 15, 2013 13:54:47 GMT
I'd been wondering about the fourth rail at KHR and noticed it had been used at some point. Now I don't have to ask the question.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Mar 15, 2013 16:05:56 GMT
It used to be used quite a lot if Bakerloo was suspended south of Queen's Park.Passengers were detrained at Queen's Park as no train stop on shunt signal at KHR.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2013 4:27:11 GMT
There is also a scheduled move - empty train 242 - on Monday to Friday evenings from Stonebridge Depot to Kilburn High Road and back. It's for training purposes, so rarely used.
On the subject of going 'off-juice' a Bakerloo Driver five or six years ago now was given (and took) the wrong stick from the up platform at Willesden Junction to the High Level! As Dstock has said, the train just 'dies'. Given the gradient though the Driver was just able to change ends (where he was still 'on-juice') and 'off-and-release' it back into the platform.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Mar 18, 2013 21:37:15 GMT
There was an instance of a DR train that was put in Wimbledon Park Depot back in 1971(?) to clear a block space. A CP stock broke a wheel at Parsons Green e/b just at the start of the pm peak.
And yes, tube stock did run via the Widened Lines, ECML to Finsbury Park then onto the Northern City line.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2013 23:24:13 GMT
I had not noticed before until studying Bakerloo WTT38 that there were a number of sleet workings (741 and 742) that ran to Kilburn High Road to turn. A couple of questions - has this been going on long (presumably, it has)? And is this a unique example of LU trains running over NR metals on a section that has no public LU service? (For sure, there plenty of examples of LU running in service over NR metals, despite the best efforts to tidy up the situation in 1994). For some reason, these trains don't seem to appear in the NR WTT section CB - again, why?. GH Occasionally some empty trains have to continue down to Kilburn High Road, either for 2 reasons, the sidings are full or there is work carried out. Theres a certain mk train not in passenger service not long enough to enter and disrupts the signalling equipment preventing the points from changing and as a result, LU have built the 3rd and 4th rail on the line to Kilburn High Road to allow the train to reverse and go north again |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 22, 2013 23:12:09 GMT
Those sleet workings have been in the Bakerloo WTT for y-e-a-r-s.
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Post by bassmike on Feb 17, 2014 11:27:58 GMT
Anyone know if a tube stock ever did run to Euston or Broad St: at anytime? 2nd world war would probably be a likely period.
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Feb 17, 2014 11:52:20 GMT
Presently, probably so. But, when Croxley Green depot was still open - LU trains ran over NR metals between Watford High St and Croxley Green Depot, and I think there wasn't public LU service. This was Bakerloo line. Pedantically I could point out NR means NetworkRail - and Bakerloo to Watford Junction ceased long long before NetworkRail was thought of, but I know what you meant! If past moves to/from depots count, and the question includes NR / RT / BR / predecessors, then wasn't there a period of tube stock transfers between the Northern City branch via BR Finsbury Park, BR Kings Cross and to the Widened Lines ? -- Nick The tube stock was topped and tailed with Battery Locos for the transfers between Neasden and Drayton Park depots , with a British Railways pilot man for the section over BR metals |
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Post by grahamhewett on Feb 17, 2014 20:58:17 GMT
bassmike - no 4th rail to those places, alas.
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Post by andypurk on Feb 17, 2014 21:45:03 GMT
bassmike - no 4th rail to those places, alas. The DC lines (and North London Line) were electrified using the 4th rail system until the 1970s, when they were converted to 3rd rail. The class 501 units, as originally built, and the proceeding LNWR stock used the standard Underground 420V/210 V supply. Reference here: History of North London DC Services: Part ThreeEdit Can't find an on-line image of Euston with 4th rail, but there are several images of Broad Street on the disused-stations website, including this one from the late 1960s. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 21:51:33 GMT
And yes, tube stock did run via the Widened Lines, ECML to Finsbury Park then onto the Northern City line. At an erlier period the Northern City stock was (AIUI) dragged from Drayton Park via Finsbury Park BR to Highgate Wood depot, over the line that didn't become part of the Northern Line, until it finally closed to all traffic. |
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Post by grahamhewett on Feb 18, 2014 11:10:07 GMT
andypurk - thank you for the correction, I had been relying (and shouldn't) on an earlier statement in this forum without checking the time frame to which it referred.
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Post by bassmike on Feb 18, 2014 13:23:34 GMT
Yes there was 4th rail to Euston and Broad st: up till when the dc system was converted to 3rd rail in late 70s' or therabouts. I didn't mean anything to do with stock being towed over the widened lines. I just wondered if there were any instances of Bakerloo stock running to either Euston or Broad st; under their own power as would have been perfectly possible. I cited the 2nd WW as a possible period when this might have happened.? Perhaps mrfs or someone might know?? Incidentally the system was rapidly reverted to 4th rail for a period when they discovered that the 501's didn't have earth brushes on the motorcoach axles and the roller bearings were rapidly f----- up by passing the return current, causing pitted roller tracks.
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Post by bassmike on Feb 18, 2014 13:25:30 GMT
Also I can remember 4th rail at Euston when I used the line in the early -mid 50's
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