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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 1:18:19 GMT
Could someone please explain a little about the tunnel layout on the W&C. Specifically could it be explained how easy/difficult it would be create a series of 'holes' between the tunnels to allow for emergency train-to-train transfer in preparation for some kind of NoPO introduction. Was the subject of mess room chatter today!
Many thanks in advance.
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Post by rsdworker on Apr 10, 2013 4:29:51 GMT
what is NOPO?
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 10, 2013 5:57:30 GMT
Could someone please explain a little about the tunnel layout on the W&C. Specifically could it be explained how easy/difficult it would be create a series of 'holes' between the tunnels to allow for emergency train-to-train transfer in preparation for some kind of NoPO introduction. Was the subject of mess room chatter today! Many thanks in advance. In a driverless operation the last thing you'd want to do is to give the passengers access to the other road! Anyway wherever a train is in service on the W&C a station is just a few minutes away in either direction on foot. I've done Waterloo to Bank return in 20 minutes without breaking a sweat while doing a survey. Emergency train-to-train transfer on the W&C is simply ridiculous! |
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rincew1nd
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Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 10, 2013 6:57:55 GMT
NoPO = No Person Operation |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 12:32:29 GMT
Could someone please explain a little about the tunnel layout on the W&C. Specifically could it be explained how easy/difficult it would be create a series of 'holes' between the tunnels to allow for emergency train-to-train transfer in preparation for some kind of NoPO introduction. Was the subject of mess room chatter today! Many thanks in advance. In a driverless operation the last thing you'd want to do is to give the passengers access to the other road! Anyway wherever a train is in service on the W&C a station is just a few minutes away in either direction on foot. I've done Waterloo to Bank return in 20 minutes without breaking a sweat while doing a survey. Emergency train-to-train transfer on the W&C is simply ridiculous! Oh I'm not advocating it - far from it - I'd be doing myself out of a job!! No, I ask because it is something that LU have rolled into the rumour mill lately as a means of emergency detrainment when they are not able to bring an assisting train up to a stranded train because of a power fault etc on the affected rails. They are couching it in terms of a modified Line 14 in Paris (which they seem to talk about every day thesedays!), their variant on the double-tunnel in Paris being a series of 'holes' punched in the connecting tunnel wall to allow for cross-train transfer FYI I don't think that they are suggesting just yet that detrainment is done without staff supervision. Essentially they seem to be toying with the idea as a means to placate any public opposition to NoPO in the Deep Level from the safety standpoint. My question here therefore is only whether it is possible TECHNICALLY to do this given the proximity or not of the tunnels and their method of construction. |
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 10, 2013 14:59:16 GMT
In a driverless operation the last thing you'd want to do is to give the passengers access to the other road! Anyway wherever a train is in service on the W&C a station is just a few minutes away in either direction on foot. I've done Waterloo to Bank return in 20 minutes without breaking a sweat while doing a survey. Emergency train-to-train transfer on the W&C is simply ridiculous! Oh I'm not advocating it - far from it - I'd be doing myself out of a job!! No, I ask because it is something that LU have rolled into the rumour mill lately as a means of emergency detrainment when they are not able to bring an assisting train up to a stranded train because of a power fault etc on the affected rails. They are couching it in terms of a modified Line 14 in Paris (which they seem to talk about every day thesedays!), their variant on the double-tunnel in Paris being a series of 'holes' punched in the connecting tunnel wall to allow for cross-train transfer FYI I don't think that they are suggesting just yet that detrainment is done without staff supervision. Essentially they seem to be toying with the idea as a means to placate any public opposition to NoPO in the Deep Level from the safety standpoint. My question here therefore is only whether it is possible TECHNICALLY to do this given the proximity or not of the tunnels and their method of construction. Of course it's possible but this is the wrong place to discuss it, anywhere but the W&C, it's not much more than a 1:1 toy railway. If the train is knackered so what, turn the juice off and walk everyone out. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 16:59:23 GMT
Are you sure that it is "LU have rolled <this> into the rumour mill lately". Most rumours seem to start very nicely without any official intervention ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 21:02:05 GMT
..errr...as a 'trial' on the W&C before possibly rolling it out elsewhere.....
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 10, 2013 22:19:04 GMT
..errr...as a 'trial' on the W&C before possibly rolling it out elsewhere..... Trialling driverless trains on the 'Kiddie Line' is one thing, making costly changes to the infrastructure for a procedure that would not be truly representative of the real deep level tube network would be a great waste of resources. LT/LU has always been very careful to trial new technology in meaningful ways, while the W&C is suitable for early driverless train technology testing it simply isn't suited to realistic testing of emergency procedures. I have stated elsewhere that I believe a better trial of the technology would be on the Victoria line between Seven Sisters and Walthamstow, that would also allow meaningful testing of emergency procedures too. As for the rumours, I believe DD to be a greater source than LU or anywhere else these days. Speculation is one thing, rumours are something entirely different, it seems that the 'modern' way is to start a rumour to push a few 'buttons' and see what reaction is provoked. FWIW I believe a total rethink of current operating rules, practices and procedures will be an absolute necessity to properly trial driverless train technology in terms of failure scenarios in multiple disciplines and for that there can be no substitute for a wholly representative part of the deep level tube. Knocking a 'few holes' between tubes is a non-starter IMHO. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 3:48:15 GMT
Thanks for the information and the analysis
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2013 7:49:44 GMT
On many driverless system (such as in Singapore), activation of the train ends emergency doors by passengers results in the train performing emergency stop, and power being turned off to all tracks in that area (which I would assume would also trigger other trains in the area to emergency stop).
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Post by rsdworker on Apr 19, 2013 21:29:55 GMT
On many driverless system (such as in Singapore), activation of the train ends emergency doors by passengers results in the train performing emergency stop, and power being turned off to all tracks in that area (which I would assume would also trigger other trains in the area to emergency stop). so that is automatic? like automatic cut off of power i know as far DLR is NOPO but has emergency driver if train stalls between station but not sure if has backup battery to move train if power failure - i believe i read in magazine - some have it |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2013 4:05:18 GMT
On many driverless system (such as in Singapore), activation of the train ends emergency doors by passengers results in the train performing emergency stop, and power being turned off to all tracks in that area (which I would assume would also trigger other trains in the area to emergency stop). so that is automatic? like automatic cut off of power i know as far DLR is NOPO but has emergency driver if train stalls between station but not sure if has backup battery to move train if power failure - i believe i read in magazine - some have it "Last mile" capability. I expect we'll hear a great deal more about this over the next few years, and especially as hybrid and battery technologies mature. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2013 20:59:31 GMT
On many driverless system (such as in Singapore), activation of the train ends emergency doors by passengers results in the train performing emergency stop, and power being turned off to all tracks in that area (which I would assume would also trigger other trains in the area to emergency stop). so that is automatic? like automatic cut off of power Yes. |
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 8, 2013 23:24:34 GMT
There's already a number of access holes between the running tunnels on the W&C.
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