Victoria line concrete issue

[Chris M]

According to Ian Visits, "The civil engineering team has (accidentally) poured fast-setting concrete into the Victoria Line signalling equipment room and shut everything down."

There are some photos at usvsth3m.com/post/74285062011/you-wont-believe-why-the-victoria-line-is-currently

[Deleted]

How much disappeared before it dawned on someone that the hole wasn't filling up?

[sawb]

More immediate question, how quickly does "fast set" concrete set?

And how would they go about getting it out of the machinery room if they're too late and said concrete has already started setting?

[londonboi1985]

OMG i thought this was a joke but holy doodoo someone will have allot of explaining to do will this cause disruption for a while

[melikepie]

How did they do it in the first place?

[rheostar]

That's not good! Looking at those pictures they'll be lucky to have it cleared by Monday morning.

'Damage caused by flooding' is an understatement!

[mrfs42]

TfL Press Office have now confirmed it is concrete. What a *magnificent* cock-up.

[londonstuff]

I once absolutely flooded my classroom by leaving the tap on in the sink and going to have my lunch. Took two weeks to dry it out but this trumps it by far.

[Deleted]

Not the whole line, thankfully, but means Warren Street to Brixton will be out of action. Can't confirm photos but the official statement I've got is:

Nigel Holness, LU's Operations Director, said: "This afternoon our contractors were working on the new station in an area next to the Victoria line signal control room. These works involved the use of water and cement which leaked into the room, damaging equipment. This has meant there are no signals working on the southern section of the line.

"The line is currently suspended between Warren Street and Brixton. Our engineers are working hard to resolve the situation as soon as possible to get services back up and running, but the line is expected to be affected for the remainder of the day while repairs are carried out.

"I am sorry for the delays which will result and I would ask that passengers seek alternative routes on the Northern and Bakerloo line."

[Deleted]

That really is a massive screw up. Really not sure how they are going to sort it out and get things back up and running quickly given the need to assess dammage, get rid of the concrete and then replace the damaged components (assuming spares are readily available).

[Deleted]

I wonder what the difference is in terms of concrete vs water damage as well. Presumably the effect of the former is less well known.

[rsdworker]

i think they could do manual signaling - we wished there was secondray signals

[Deleted]

From the BBC live feed:

17:45:

Nigel Holness, from London Underground, said an investigation would start into what had happened.

"The power has gone off to that signalling system and we have engineering staff down there and it is important we learn from that.

"We have got a big project on to upgrade Victoria station and what we are doing is using concrete to fill voids. At the moment we are focusing our efforts on getting the service back as quickly as possible."

Best check what's actually in the voids next time!

[domh245]

I doubt they could do manual, the interlockings now being under a substantial amount of concrete. I suppose they could run a line of sight system in RM, but it would take an age, and the points at Brixton being chopped and changed every so often could be problematic, unless they choose to use 2 trains,one per tunnel, shuttling between Warren Street and Brixton, but again, that is a lot of core stations being served with a very low frequency.

[Chris M]

Station to station working would allow faster running times, but still with such a limited throughput it might be safer to suspend the line.

[rsdworker]

Jan 23, 2014 18:39:18 GMT Chris M said:

Station to station working would allow faster running times, but still with such a limited throughput it might be safer to suspend the line.

i agree - a emergency signaling could work - New york subway had that on few lines when storm damaged the signalling system which had to do manual (flagging at signals)

[londonboi1985]

Station to Station working would create more problems than its worth and cause more problems for the controller who i imagine is already working there socks off running the shuttle service at present with drivers in wrong places trains in wrong locations etc

[stuartroy]

In a situation like this, what's the "immediate" response? Presumably there are emergency procedures to allow trains to get to the next station and tip out? What then? Do they leave the trains where they are, or is there a manual method ("one engine in steam"?) of getting them back to the unaffected part of the system and hence to their depot?

[londonstuff]

Looking at the pics I'd doubt it'll be ready in a week rather than a day as suggested. Chipping away all the concrete, assessing the damage, removing the parts, ordering new ones, installing it and testing all the interlocking, etc.

Green message:On a different note, I've changed the title of this thread to something more easily understandable to people checking the boards - I've a feeling this is going to be a popular one!

[rsdworker]

Jan 23, 2014 20:32:23 GMT londonstuff said:

Looking at the pics I'd doubt it'll be ready in a week rather than a day as suggested. Chipping away all the concrete, assessing the damage, removing the parts, ordering new ones, installing it and testing all the interlocking, etc.

Green message:On a different note, I've changed the title of this thread to something more easily understandable to people checking the boards - I've a feeling this is going to be a popular one!

yeah its takes while to clear the relay room and fix the damage - they could put backup signalling like manual signals like semophones or simple flags while the relay room is being fixed

[londonstuff]

Lols:

[John Tuthill]

Jan 23, 2014 20:35:10 GMT rsdworker said:

Jan 23, 2014 20:32:23 GMT londonstuff said:

Looking at the pics I'd doubt it'll be ready in a week rather than a day as suggested. Chipping away all the concrete, assessing the damage, removing the parts, ordering new ones, installing it and testing all the interlocking, etc.

Green message:On a different note, I've changed the title of this thread to something more easily understandable to people checking the boards - I've a feeling this is going to be a popular one!

yeah its takes while to clear the relay room and fix the damage - they could put backup signalling like manual signals like semophones or simple flags while the relay room is being fixed

Don't know if the 'door operator' can drive the trains on manual, can't they use a 'human token' like they did when they found asbestos in the tunnels between Hampstead and Golders Green?
Good job tomorrows Friday, perfect excuse for a sicky.

[jamesb]

I feel a bit sorry for whoever was supervising the work that lead to this happening.
Mistakes do happen but it's unfortunate somebody wasn't keeping a closer eye on this vital and sensitive room which was in proximity to the work.

Am I right in saying that this is all brand new signalling equipment?

Not sure if that makes it easier or harder to fix....

[melikepie]

Have they shown any concrete evidence on how they are going to fix it? (I had to...)

[jamesb]

My guess is that they will 'shovel' out the concrete or break it up if it's set...
Then assess exactly how many pieces of equipment have been damaged
(I wonder if the machinery high up could be 'electrically' damaged even if not directly affected by concrete?)

Then work out how many 'relays' need replacing.

Then test the entire thing.

Is there a 'backup' worked into the signalling system to be used if this room gets damaged? On the central line there is a 'local signal control' room at stations?
Does a similar thing exist on the Victoria line?

[superteacher]

There seems no way that this will be sorted by tomorrow!

And no, there is no way to control the signals from local points. As far as I know that was the case even before the Vic line resignalling. On ATO lines, the whole system has to be run from a central location as trains are controlled relative to each other, and need electronically generated codes. You wouldn't be able to send ATO codes to a train from, say, a local signal cabin because the codes sent depend on the location of other trains. in the good old days, it was much simpler. Green for go, red for stop and the driver acted accordingly.

I daresay that there is equipment at stations to set signals to danger in emergencies, or simply to kill the ATO codes, hence bringing the trains to a halt.

[Chris W]

Jan 23, 2014 21:25:54 GMT melikepie said:

Have they shown any concrete evidence on how they are going to fix it? (I had to...)

It's comments like this (and that posted by LondonStuff re Paul Stlburn on Twitter) that so don't help... but so make me LOL

Dark humour eh..?!!

Yes I do feel so sorry for the poor sod (possibly a contractor) whose going to be made, in time, to carry the can!!!

[rheostar]

Jan 23, 2014 21:25:54 GMT melikepie said:

Have they shown any concrete evidence on how they are going to fix it? (I had to...)

I don't think anything's set in stone yet.

[antharro]

A couple of links:

Evening Standard: Huge delays on Victoria line as concrete bursts into control room

Tottenham and Wood Green Journal: Victoria Line closed after fast-setting concrete poured into signal room- PICTURES

BBC News: Victoria Tube line part shut hit by wet concrete flood

At least they know who's responsible. And even if the concrete sets it shouldn't be a hard case to crack....... (sorry...)

[rsdworker]

well looks like its was quick recovery - Victoria line reopened fully (i think they must found way to reroute the signals around the damaged area)