OPO equipment failure on S stock

[Deleted]

Hi, I was wondering what would happen in the event of an OPO equipment failure on the S stock on platforms where the front of the train stops beyond the platform headwall. Obviously the T/Op cannot get out onto the platform to dispatch themselves (as per cat. B), nor can they get help from a member of staff standing on the platform (as per cat. A) - since they can't get onto the platform to see them. Do you have to call up the control room in this case and get help from them?

What about at Baker Street eastbound, where there is - it seems - a narrow extension to the platform. Is this provided precisely for this purpose - it's obviously too narrow for passenger use?

Also do standard rules still apply everywhere else?

[Colin]

Standard rules apply.

For category B you must be able to see the whole platform train interface by sticking your head out of the cab.

Category A is where you can't see the whole platform train interface.

Even where an S stops in the tunnel beyond the usual mark, it doesn't really change anything. Either you can see or you can't - its not so far that you can't communicate with station staff and is no different to a passenger alarm stopping you part way out of a station.

[Deleted]

Okay, but I'm still not sure how the dispatch would actually be carried out. Because you come to a stop and you think - oh rats, I've got no CCTV, I can't see the platform. In the old days, as I understand it, you would open up regardless. On a cat. B you can then open the cab door and get out onto the platform, have a little look, close-up using the buttons on the bulkhead, have another little look and, if you're happy, you have a pilot light, the stick's off and so on, off you go. No problem.

On a cat. A things got more tricky. Because you can't see the whole platform, this approach is no good - for all you know, someone's got their clothes caught in the doors at the back of the train or something. So you have a member of staff on the platform to give you the right. You open the cab door, get out onto the platform, watch your bit of the platform, the member of station staff watches their bit, you come to an agreement, close-up using the buttons on the bulkhead and if you're both satisfied, you have the pilot light and everything else, you can go.

But of course, you can't get out onto the platform somewhere like Ealing Common. Well, you could, but you'd have to leave via the J door and walk down the train, which'd be no good, because then you'd have to walk back to the cab to close the doors and then you wouldn't be able to see if you had the right. Obviously with no CCTV there's nothing you can do?

[Deleted]

One viable solution is to install emergency stop plungers on the platform, with platform staff resting a finger on the button upon the train departing.

[Deleted]

Which is the way things work over on the red one, I believe, but you still really need a way to know if you've been given the right, or not. I think Wood Lane watch you out over there if you've got no CCTV at a cat. A.

[Colin]

Sept 18, 2014 20:31:55 GMT tut said:

I think Wood Lane watch you out over there if you've got no CCTV at a cat. A.

Yes, but Wood Lane uses the same CCTV images as supplied to the in cab monitors - so if its a platform side failure rather than train bourne, Wood Lane can't help.

Sept 18, 2014 19:17:46 GMT tut said:

Okay, but I'm still not sure how the dispatch would actually be carried out. Because you come to a stop and you think - oh rats, I've got no CCTV, I can't see the platform. In the old days, as I understand it, you would open up regardless. On a cat. B you can then open the cab door and get out onto the platform, have a little look, close-up using the buttons on the bulkhead, have another little look and, if you're happy, you have a pilot light, the stick's off and so on, off you go. No problem.

You didn't read what I wrote! You're assuming that we physically leave the cab at category B platforms which is incorrect. If we left the cab to check the PTI there'd be no need for Category A!

To recap, a platform is category B providing we can see the whole PTI from the cab (ie, by sticking ones head out of the door). Now take Bayswater as an example; we go a fair way into the tunnel there - selective door open cuts out the leading two doors - yet we can still see the PTI by sticking our head out the cab door as the platform is dead straight.

Sept 18, 2014 19:17:46 GMT tut said:

On a cat. A things got more tricky. Because you can't see the whole platform, this approach is no good - for all you know, someone's got their clothes caught in the doors at the back of the train or something. So you have a member of staff on the platform to give you the right. You open the cab door, get out onto the platform, watch your bit of the platform, the member of station staff watches their bit, you come to an agreement, close-up using the buttons on the bulkhead and if you're both satisfied, you have the pilot light and everything else, you can go.

Station staff do not "give the right". The procedure is called "assisted dispatch" and is exactly that.

Assisted dispatch for OPO or in cab CCTV failure is exactly the same as it is for a platform overrun or passenger emergency alarm part way out of a platform........the driver and station staff must come to a complete understanding on how the train will be safely dispatched.

Sept 18, 2014 19:17:46 GMT tut said:

But of course, you can't get out onto the platform somewhere like Ealing Common. Well, you could, but you'd have to leave via the J door and walk down the train, which'd be no good, because then you'd have to walk back to the cab to close the doors and then you wouldn't be able to see if you had the right. Obviously with no CCTV there's nothing you can do?

As above, its no different to having a passenger emergency alarm part way out of a station. We simply come to an understanding with station staff.

The only difference between a D and an S is that we can't communicate through an open window or the gap between cars on an S. It may be a little more long winded in that comms may need to go through the line controller initially instead.

But getting back to the basic point of no in cab CCTV at cat A platforms where we stop in the tunnel.........I can't think of any location where its so far forward that you can't reasonably have a face to face conversation with station staff by sticking ya head out the cab door and them being at the platform headwall.

[Deleted]

Thank you, sorry for the confusion on my part. Because the way I was thinking about it was - well if you have no in-cab CCTV at a category A platform, how can you possibly come to an understanding with someone on the platform - you can't see them! That's why I tended to imagine it would be necessary to leave the cab - in order to communicate with a member of staff on the platform. But of course, I overlooked the fact that you might not have to actually get onto the platform, you can simply peer out of the door. What a thing to overlook! Anyway, it's all clear now