Turn that light out!

[towerman]

Maybe Q8 can back me up on this,didn't there used to be a regular reminder to guards in the Traffic Circular which went along the lines "Guards are reminded that in open sections during daylight hours saloon lighting must be turned off"Did this instruction ever get rescinded or is it now that nobody can be bothered to turn the lights off?I'd have thought in the summer it's one less source of heat in the train.

[setttt]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Why not just use the emergency lights in the open in daylight? It's not hard... just walk over to the offside and trip/set the lights...

[Deleted]

All saloon lights have to be on all the time now. If any car is without lights, even in daylight, the train must be withdrawn from service.

Tripping the lights switches them ALL off, including the emergency lights - there's no separate switch. Well, not on C and D stocks anyway.

[towerman]

Seems very wasteful,the tubes and MA brushes must wear out quicker.It seems pointless having all lights blazing on a bright sunny day.

[q8]

I can indeed back up Towerman's statement that car lights were to be switched off in daylight in open sections. Exceptions included fog, falling snow and funderstorms. If a manager got on in the open and saw the lights on they'd ask you to switch them off. The reasons given for the instruction was to reduce the load on the MG's (MA's). However with these modern wotnots it may not be needed.

[Deleted]

On the Northern in the 60s, coming into East Finchley during daylight, the lights always went off the moment the guard (on the last car) came out of the tunnel. But they didn't bother much on the Circle, which in those days went in and out of tunnel frequently.

[Deleted]

towerman said:

Guards are reminded that in open sections during daylight hours saloon lighting must be turned off"Did this instruction ever get rescinded or is it now that nobody can be bothered to turn the lights off?.

As the combine went OPO the reminder in the Traffic Circular changed to "Guards on crew operated trains" then went on to state "OPO trains must have car lighting on at all times when in service". I think the idea is as trains would go into tunnels the driver would be oblivious to the darkness in the train on many occasions, causing panic. Even as a Guard I forgot to switch the lights on on many occasions and as we hit the tunnel I would be fumbling about in the dark, trying to switch the lights on

[trainopd78]

By the time I was a guard the instruction had been rescinded, and as far as im aware was rescinded when the Central had guards before 1990.

[Deleted]

jim said:

As the combine went OPO the reminder in the Traffic Circular changed to "Guards on crew operated trains" then went on to state "OPO trains must have car lighting on at all times when in service". I think the idea is as trains would go into tunnels the driver would be oblivious to the darkness in the train on many occasions, causing panic. Even as a Guard I forgot to switch the lights on on many occasions and as we hit the tunnel I would be fumbling about in the dark, trying to switch the lights on

A couple of months ago I took a train out of service because I discovered when changing ends at Barking that one of the wooden flooring panels had most of its screws missing and was sticking up at one end (when I say discovered, I of course mean I tripped over the wretched thing... )

Anyway, TT arrives at Earls Court, says he can sort it out on the move, so off we go empty to Wimbledon with the TT working on the floor in the first car. Get stopped at red signal in tunnel before West Brompton, then there's a tap on the J door, so I open it to see the TT standing in pitch darkness - I turned off the saloon lights back at Barking and didn't think about switching them on again in the tunnel now I had a "passenger"!

[Deleted]

According to a document I have found dating back to 1993, lighting of trains on the Central is summed up like this:

Car lighting must be switched on, during dull or inclement weather and hours of darkness and as follows at all times of the day -

When passing through the flyunder at North Acton and under bridge ES8 at White City.

Between White City and Leyton and between Leytonstone and Newbury Park.

When passing through Whipps Cross and Grange Hill tunels.

Guards may use their discretion and switch on or retain the lighting, if, in their opinion this is necessary for the convenience of passengers.

When a train is detrained under any overbridge or flyover the lighting must be switched on if there is a possiblity of passengers suffering inconvenience. Car lighting must always be switched off when trains are stabled.

[Deleted]

The current (2003) District Line Supplement to the refernece manual is quite emphatic:

"Car lighting must be switched on at all times whilst in passenger service"

[superteacher]

Why are all trains stabled with their lights on?

[Deleted]

superteacher said:

Why are all trains stabled with their lights on?

No reason really, it's just that the lights tend to be left on all the time. The only time I switch them off is when running out of service, it wouldn't occur to me to switch them off when stabling.

[superteacher]

adw said:

superteacher said:

Why are all trains stabled with their lights on?

No reason really, it's just that the lights tend to be left on all the time. The only time I switch them off is when running out of service, it wouldn't occur to me to switch them off when stabling.

Interesting - you would think that TFL would want to be seen as "green", and issue a directive that all interior lights should be off when stabled. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, there used to be a directive about this.

[trainopd78]

adw said:

superteacher said:

Why are all trains stabled with their lights on?

No reason really, it's just that the lights tend to be left on all the time. The only time I switch them off is when running out of service, it wouldn't occur to me to switch them off when stabling.

A good reason, for me at least, is that when the saloon lights are turned off, when you remove your control key the cab light then goes off too. obviously it's handy to see where you're going when climbing down from the train.

[Deleted]

Hmm, I thought that cab lights stayed on when the control [RKL] was removed? They do at least on 9x ts...

Hmmm, most peculiar... should have illumini paint applied to the steps, or mini lights!

[mrjrt]

Sorry if it's a silly idea, but why don't the trains just have simple light sensors hooked up to the lights that turn them on when the light levels get too low? - With an override for the whole train if need be? e.g. Off/Auto/On

IIRC from my school days one of them cost about 20p 10 years ago, so I can't imagine it'd be that great an expense for a few on each car.

[Colin]

tubeoperator92 said:

Hmm, I thought that cab lights stayed on when the control [RKL] was removed?

The cab light will go off when the control key (which isn't the RKL key BTW ;D ;D) is removed if the saloon lights are switched off - but it will remain on if the saloon lights are on.

Another reason for leaving the saloon lights on when stabling is that invariably the cleaners, train techs, etc will usually board the train very soon after it's stabled - so it's pointless turning them off only to have them turned on again almost straight away.

And vandals hate working in lit up areas - turning the saloon lights off would make it more difficult to catch them on CCTV etc.

[jamesb]

In the very hot weather, I have been in Central Line trains at the eastern end with the lights turned off in the outside sections in recent years.

As a side issue, the emergency lighting on the '92 stock seems a bit dim at the best of times. I remember comments in the Chancery Lane derailment report that mentioned there were problems with the batteries running out of juice more quickly then they should. How long would they last?

[trainopd78]

Don't forget on more modern stocks, the control and reverser barrels are combined, so only the RKL 220 is required to open up. This setup eliminates said problem, but does create others.

[Tomcakes]

adw said:

superteacher said:

Why are all trains stabled with their lights on?

No reason really, it's just that the lights tend to be left on all the time. The only time I switch them off is when running out of service, it wouldn't occur to me to switch them off when stabling.

Isn't that very wasteful? I mean, lights being left on all night. Why not switch them off when the train is finished with for the day? Couldn't the cleaners do it when they've finished mopping up?

[District Dave]

tombeevers said:

Isn't that very wasteful? I mean, lights being left on all night. Why not switch them off when the train is finished with for the day? Couldn't the cleaners do it when they've finished mopping up?

In most locations lights are left on as an anti-graffiti measure, though I do understand the sentiment - particularly in these days of considering the 'carbon footprint' thing.

[Deleted]

Hmm, why not have the installation of a sensor in the cars, so that when you break the beam, the lights come on? That'll stop the shenanigans of 'artists'.

I'm sure our tech bods could include this in the circuitry without too much hassle?

[Deleted]

Only time I kill the lights is when stabling on a shed road - no current rails, the main lights will go out anyway but the emergency lights then drain the batteries.

You do ocassionally see a train with the saloon lights off, usually when it has come from a depot in daylight and the driver has forgotten to turn them on ! (In a D stcok cab, when the lights are off an indication light is illuminated in the cab.)

[Colin]

aspect said:

(In a D stcok cab, when the lights are off an indication light is illuminated in the cab.)

A useful idea which I'd like to see carried forward to S stocks - 'PRJB' take note!

[Deleted]

colin said:

aspect said:

(In a D stcok cab, when the lights are off an indication light is illuminated in the cab.)

A useful idea which I'd like to see carried forward to S stocks - 'PRJB' take note!

So far all stocks post D stock have this feature, so I would expect it to continue anyway

[Deleted]

jim said:

colin said:

A useful idea which I'd like to see carried forward to S stocks - 'PRJB' take note!

So far all stocks post D stock have this feature, so I would expect it to continue anyway

Good point, I hope it does continue.