Northfields Depot

[towerman]

Q8 can probably confirm or deny this,wasn't Northfields originally built as a District depot,but when they decided to extend the Picc from Hammersmith the plans changed?

[piccadillypilot]

towerman said:

wasn't Northfields originally built as a District depot, but when they decided to extend the Picc from Hammersmith the plans changed?

AIUI the building of the depot, the four-tracking and the extension of the Piccadilly to Hounslow and Uxbridge was all part of the same plan.

[towerman]

I only asked as when I was a trainee an instructor at White City(rolling stock)told us that if your ever in Northfields you'll notice that the roller shutters are surface stock height,this was because the depot was originally meant to replace Ealing Common.

[Colin]

IIRC untill the District was withdrawn from the Hounslow branch (as it was then), both the piccadilly and District lines shared Northfields and Ealing Common.

[q8]

You are all partly right Gentlemen. With the extension of the Piccadilly line westwards from Hammersmith (of which more shortly) it was seen that Lillie Bridge depot was far too small to accomodate the extra tube stock needed so they scouted around for a site for a new depot.

Several areas were surveyed in West London with the criterion being that it was to be as close to central London as possible. All of the sites looked at were greenfield or vacant land at the time. Northfields was chosen. Once the depot site was agreed upon it was decided to relieve the crowding at Ealing Common by stabling some District trains there as well so it was built to SSL loading gauge. It was originally intended to have a much larger depot and close Ealing Common entirely but apparently a private developer got in first and bought the extra land required. I am told that Northfields can, at a pinch, house 40 trains but I don't know the veracity of that.

Now as regards the extension of the Piccadilly line itself I can tell you what a lovely old Motorman (now sadly gone) told me when I was Guard. This Driver had started work as what called a "runner" for the District Railway when he was 14. The District was then part of what was called the "Combine". This combine included the "London Electric Railways" (LER) of which the Piccadilly was a part. As a "runner" he had to dash about from place to place with papers and files and all sorts of bumpf in the various offices at headquarters and consequently got to know quite a lot about what was going on in regard to things "secret" A bit like a despatch rider in the Army who often knew more about the despatch he was carrying than the ossifers it was delivered to. He also had to sometimes sit in on meetings as a minute taker when no secretary was available. His job was classed as secretarial you see. Anyway this is what the old chap told me:
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Prior to the extension for the Piccadilly being built the line emerged from "dungeons dark and deep" (as he put it) at Barons Court as it does now and used what are now the easbound pair of tracks as far as Hammersmith where they had their own station with dead ends. The other (south side/westbound) pair of tracks were solely District and there was only one covered way west of Hammersmith.

The first plan was to keep that arrangement as far as Hammersmith and build a second covered way out to either side of the Studland Road viaduct (which was done) The second covered way was to be excusively for the Piccadilly and they were to come up the bank and run along the north side pair of tracks and serve Ravenscourt Park and Turnham Green and then using the existing underpass run to RICHMOND which the DR was to serve no longer.

However despite the fact that Bakerloo trains shared the same metals as LMS trains north of Queens Park, the Southern Railway vehemently opposed this idea. No-one is quite sure why the opposition was so intense but it was speculated that they were afraid that a Piccadilly connection direct to the west end would cream off the theatre traffic which came from south western parts of London. The battle was intense apparently with the Combine standing it's ground and the SR digging in.

As a sop the SR offered to let the District extend beyond Richmond to Windsor (which the DR had long wanted) or to diverge at Gunnersbury onto the Barnes line to a destination of their choice. THAT was opposed by the LMS unless they got running powers over that line as well. The tit-for-tat went on for a little while with all sorts of ideas being bandied about including one for the DR extending to Hounslow south of the river and connecting with it's existing Hounslow line. Another scheme was to extend the H&C via the Studland Road Viaduct to Richmond and leave the Piccadilly as it was ending at Hammersmith and no new covered way being built. The DR did not like that idea at all as they saw it as a Metroplitan attempt to invade their territory.

After much toing and froing and splutter and bluster the present arrangement was decided upon and construction started. The old chap lived to be 99 and was an absolute goldmine of info about the "company" days. It was he that told me that some District rolling stock was painted GREEN for a while. These were the cars that were owned by the LMS railway after the extension to Upminster was built.

I hope that satisfies your curiosity Lads.

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EDIT. I have just remembered the other reason for the objections ref the Piccadilly going to Richmond. There were freight trains using the line between Gunnersbury and Richmond and points south. (Not to mention the "Blackmans Express's and other goods " to West Ken Yard) The Southern did not like the idea of having tube stock on the same tracks as goods trains. The Bakerloo north of Queens park was purely an "all electric passenger stock" railway you see.

Just to clarify things a bit.

[piccadillypilot]

q8 said:

I am told that Northfields can, at a pinch, house 40 trains

It would be pushing it.
There are 19 roads in the shed and on Boston plus two in the lifting shop. No 1 road in the shed has the wheel lathe (or did at any rate) and was used to stable the Aldwych unit. No. 19 road is the wash. 20 and 21 roads are the lifting shop and IIRC there's not enough space to stable a train on both roads at the Boston end.

I hope that satisfies your curiosity Lads.

Thanks for that, it's one of the benefits of getting the info from people who were there as not everything gets written down.