Old Time Guv'nors

[towerman]

This is aimed mainly at Q8 and any other old timers.Do you remember the guys who were the Chief Operations Managers?When I started on LT the COM was WW(Wally)Maxwell,I remember seeing him at Walthamstow the day the Victoria Line opened,suit and waistcoat,with watch chain,flower in his buttonhole and to top it all a bowler hat!!He was followed by another Maxwell,can't remember his first name.After him came Mr Hiden I met him when he was chief schedule compiler,he lived at Chesham and was always on the 07:50 at Ricky riding in the cab,he always insisted that computers would never be able to work out rosters and timetables as they would never have the memory,famous last words.Then probably the best known ones of all the Cope brothers,they were pobably the last example of people starting off as box boys and going to the very top.These guys were like God,when I was at Hainault we used to borrow a Vic Line unit to cover for the Cravens when they were at Acton Works.They'd been trying to get one unit back for weeks to N/Park but the stock move kept getting cancelled usually for lack of a pilotman on the Central.One day somebody must have rang Charlie Cope to complain.Charlie picked up the phone and within 3 hours the train was on it's way,there's nothing like the word of God to get things done.

[solidbond]

Ahh - now I remember the Cope brothers. But what a different pair of people. Charlie had a manner about him that filled you with confidence in his ability. John on the other hand, came across completely different. I remember when I was a guard we left West Ruislip and John Cope was in the cab with my driver. He got off at Notting Hill Gate. My driver told me that as he got out the cab, using the side cab door of the 62 stock, he got his briefcase stuck in the doorway as he was holding it sideways It was things like that that you just couldn't imagine Charlie Cope doing!

[q8]

Oh Yes I remember them all!! The name of one is slightly wrong however. It was not Hiden it, was HYDER, spoke as if he had a mouthful of plums. (or am I confusing him with someone else) Hope you don't think I am nit-picking there.

Then there was that wonderful man Alec Gorton. A real gentleman who would bend over backwards to help you get out of trouble if he thought you deserved it. Then at the other extreme was "I am FARQUHAR" DM on the Bakerloo who I had a row with on Baker Street platform and called him a c*nt to his face. (Remind me to tell you about it sometime) The guys on the trains used to call him "Silly Farquhar"

We had some good yardmasters too and some not so good. All sadly now gone. Jack Haigh, "Booker" Barnes, Fred Smith, Wally Holloway, "Applebush"..... oh such lovely memories.

[q8]

He was followed by another Maxwell,can't remember his first name.
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That's the chap I was told was credited with designing AlanL's favourite stock.

[Deleted]

I remember John Cope, a right miserable git he was too, don't remember Charlie though, I heard he was more easy going.

[towerman]

When I was on a course at Flagstaff House in the early 80's John & Charlie came down to give us a pep talk,Charlie claimed the idea for a loop for Heathrow T4 was his,the original plans were for a conventional double track with a scissors crossing at T4 station

[towerman]

Re a Mr Farquhar,there was also a top gov'nor on civils with that name as well.He rang Ginger the P.Way ganger at Hainault one day,"Hainault P.Way" says Ginger,"Farquhar here" says the gov'nor,"and f**k you too!!!" says Ginger and slams the phone down.

[piccadillypilot]

q8 said:

We had some good yardmasters too and some not so good. All sadly now gone. Jack Haigh, "Booker" Barnes,

"Booker" Barnes was a SM at Acton when I joined the job as a callow Station Guard. (More years ago than I care to think about.)

I heard a lot about him, little of it complimentary, but he treated everyone dead straight. One particular story involved him meeting a Motorman at a local venue en route to work for a late turn. Booker arrived on time but the Motorman concerned arrived late and was booked for it.

The comments to the effect that they'd just been socialising and why on earth was he booked late etc were many and varied. However, the guy was late (with no good reason) and that was the end of it. IMHO he tried to take advantage and came unstuck, but there's no cause for complaint. If the SM chooses not to book someone late then that's his choice and one simply says "Thank you". However, when one knows that the person behind the desk will book one late then to be late is plain silly. It was said that Barnes even booked himself late on the very rare occasion that he was.

My main recollection of him was at the end of my first annual leave. The normal practice was that a messenger would go round dropping notes through the doors of those who wouldn't know their duty to let them know their duty the following week.

For whatever reason this hadn't happened in my case so having got back from my week away on the Saturday afternoon I went to Acton Town to find out.

Barnes was on duty and it seemed that I hadn't been booked for anything. "Come in for late spare" (or whatever) he said. "Oh, since you've taken the trouble to come in do you want a Sunday?"

So for the sake of an hour or so going to the station I got a decent turn for the week and a buckshee Sunday out of it.

A good man in my book.

We also had good SMs at Northfields (mostly). Again, they appreciated the benefits of "give and take" rather than sticking rigidly to the Rule Book.

As always things go wrong and one day when I was on a spare turn and about due to finish the customary hour early wqhen Sam Gibbs, the SM on duty, asked if I could help out by taking a train to Heathrow and back. This would involve me in not only not getting away early but doing overtime. Virtually unheard of on a running turn, overtime on a spare turn it was bordering on sacrilege.

Some months later I was late spare one Saturday (16:30 book on, 8 hour turn). A friend was having a party and obviously I wanted to go. As I booked on I asked the SM on duty, Jim Rush, if there was any chance of getting away early. Obviously he couldn't say yes until it was obvious that everyone who was booked to do so had turned up for their turns and that the job was running straight. "We'll see" he said. "OK", says I and left it at that.

A couple of hours later he pushed the mess room door open very slightly and caught my eye. He didn't say anything but just tipped his head to signify that he wouldn't notice if I wasn't there.

There were many others who also knew their job, knew how far the rules could be bent and had the confidence to do people favours, as long as the favours were returned. However, those who only took without giving any help back got nothing.

Through mutual backscratching, rather than sticking rigidly to the rules, everyone wins and the job runs smoother. I do wonder if the same still applies.

[q8]

Barnes was a SM at Acton.
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"Booker" though not popular, was a fair man and all were treated the same no matter wether it was a duty or some other aspect of work.

At the other extreme were the "blue eyes" men. The geezers behind the counter who had their favourites among the men of the crews. These favourites got all the toffee and the rest got the turd.

[towerman]

Mr Q8 in your travels did you ever come across a Vic Spratt,when I started as a trainee at Hainault in '66 he was the Depot Engineer.Apparently he started as a cleaner at Lillie Bridge when it was a Picc depot and worked his way up to the dizzy heights of Depot Engineer,rumour had it that he was the only person left on LT who knew how the metadyne battery locos worked.When they had the press launch of the '67TS at Woodford the powers that be wouldn't let Vic go as they were frightened he would say something inappropriate,a man who called a spade a f**king shovel was Vic.

[q8]

No I never knew or met Vic Spratt. But he sounds just the kind of man I like.

[towerman]

Living in the northeast maybe you've heard of the man who replaced Vic Spratt,Dave Thornton resigned from LT and took a top job on the Tyne & Wear Metro.

[q8]

Dave Thornton resigned from LT and took a top job on the Tyne & Wear Metro.
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I have heard of that gentleman and I may even have met him on one of the Metro open days. But memory is not what it was.

[Tom]

q8 said:

Oh Yes I remember them all!! The name of one is slightly wrong however. It was not Hiden it, was HYDER, spoke as if he had a mouthful of plums. (or am I confusing him with someone else)

I've got an old Northern City WTT an the name on the bottom is R.C. Hider.

[Deleted]

q8 said:

Oh Yes I remember them all!! The name of one is slightly wrong however. It was not Hiden it, was HYDER, spoke as if he had a mouthful of plums. (or am I confusing him with someone else) Hope you don't think I am nit-picking there.

There used to be an Area manager on the Central named Hillier,or as he was known "Plum Gob", you're not on about him by any chance?

[towerman]

That's Mick Hiller,knew him as a SI at Victoria and as an AM at Leytonstone.He ended up at Operational Standards at Lambeth North he took VS last year and is now living a life of ease and leisure.

[q8]

I've got an old Northern City WTT an the name on the bottom is R.C. Hider.
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THAT'S the geezer. Spoke to us a training school as if we were something stuck to the bottom of a shoe

[towerman]

Q8,as an ex DR man you must have came across "cast iron" John Armstrong,he was Line Engineer on the DR,based at Ealing Common, for years.I knew him in his later years when he was at Golders Green.The story goes that John was going to be Line Engineer for the Vic Line when it opened,but he was under so much stress trying to get the trains ready for line opening he had a breakdown and was found wandering around some forest land talking to the trees,see it's true working for LT could drive you round the bend.It's John we can thank for the removal of train overhaul from Acton Works,he was in charge of the working party looking into modernising Acton and decided it was cheaper for overhaul to be moved to the depots.

[q8]

Heard of him but never met him

[q8]

Towerman. (I'd love to know the reason for that name) What depots did you work at in your time?

[Deleted]

q8 said:

Towerman. (I'd love to know the reason for that name)

He works in the Tower at Stratford Depot. How's that for a guess

[towerman]

Q8, I've worked at Hainault,Northumberland Park,Ricky Sdgs,Hainault(again),Golders Green,Stonebridge Park and finally the jewel of the east,the goldfish bowl at Stratford Market Depot.

[q8]

Cor!! You been like me, all round-the-houses and pillar-to-post. Now having worked at Golders I once had an old LT man tell me that there was a "secret" at Golders Green depot. I dunno what he was talking about and before I could squeeze it out of him he died. Do you know what that "secret is/was?

[Deleted]

towerman said:

...the jewel of the east...

LOL! I've never heard it referred to as that before!
How long have you been at SMD, Towerman? I only ask because I came over to the District from the Jubilee in late 2001 or early 2002, and I met some of the tower blokes when I worked nights! Everyone else slept or did their thing, but I used to sit in the tower and talk to whoever was there (I'd ask permission from the towerman if I could come up when I'd stabled), so I may have met you a few years ago!!!

Does SMD tower still have an emergency panel for controlling the signalling on the JLE? I'm sure I can remember seeing it and having it explained to me, but I may be getting mixed up with the manual panel they have at Stalag Neasden.

(Sorry for taking this off-topic!)

[towerman]

Alan I've been here from the start I was one of the first four to qualify.The only thing on the main line we can take control of is the radio,if NSCC evacuates we issue the code amber.
As to Q8's question,the only "secret" I was told at Golders was that in one of the houses that backed on to the walkway at the rear of the depot there was a young lady who made sure her bedroom curtains were open when she undressed.Never saw it myself but a couple of the cleaners swore blind it was a regular occurence.

[Deleted]

towerman said:

Alan I've been here from the start I was one of the first four to qualify.The only thing on the main line we can take control of is the radio,if NSCC evacuates we issue the code amber.

Cheers, Towerman! I knew there was something I was shown/told about SMD controlling something!!

[q8]

there was a young lady who made sure her bedroom curtains were open when she undressed.
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Nah! the secret I was so frustratingly denied had something to do with a construction below ground level. I dunno wether it was a tunnel or bunker or what-all but you apparently needed "clearance" to go into it. I have a vague feeling it had something to do with the blind shunt neck next to the southbound main tunnel