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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2016 23:31:56 GMT
Hi all.
Just received a leaflet from my DTSM regarding a fleet refresh on the Jubilee Lines 1996TS. It reads:
"From the autumn, the 1996 stock will be going for a midlife refurbishment, and you can see plenty of changes as the months roll by.
The first train will be worked on at SMD (Stratford Market Depot) from October, and will take 12 weeks to complete. Once the first three trains are done, a train will be refurbished once every 2 weeks, with work going on 24 hours a day.
Changes you will notice are new wheelchair bays in the trailer cars including their own PEAs (passenger emergency alarms). Newly painted and vinyl exteriors, exterior door open buttons removed, with major works done to address water ingress issues. The DVA has been updated (not part of the fleet refresh) to include newer and more relevant DVA messages. The whole fleet is planned to be completed by August 2019."
Also below the information are two photographs of what the train will look like with the yellow handle bars removed and replaced with grey ones, floors replaced with similar ones used on the Northern Line and the classic turquoise colour of parts of the train to be replaced with white.
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Post by rsdworker on Aug 11, 2016 7:26:06 GMT
so new wheelchair bays? - i thought existing wheelchair bays that already in existing trailer cars which has PEA which is on pillar facing wheelchair bay
means the existing bays will be replaced with 2 bays in single train?
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Post by phoenixcronin on Aug 11, 2016 9:30:03 GMT
so new wheelchair bays? - i thought existing wheelchair bays that already in existing trailer cars which has PEA which is on pillar facing wheelchair bay means the existing bays will be replaced with 2 bays in single train? It probably means that as on the 95 stock each trailer car will be fitted with wheelchair backboards either side of the central bay of seats (on one side) meaning each trailer car has space for two wheelchairs. Presumably this will be done to the two original trailers (the 2nd and 6th cars) and not the 2005 build special trailer. |
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Post by phoenixcronin on Aug 11, 2016 9:34:26 GMT
Also below the information are two photographs of what the train will look like with the yellow handle bars removed and replaced with grey ones, floors replaced with similar ones used on the Northern Line and the classic turquoise colour of parts of the train to be replaced with white. Grey handlebars? Really? I thought LU was moving towards a common interior colour scheme of white panels with blue trim/handlebars, as on the 09 and refurbished 95 stock. Grey would certainly look odd IMHO |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 10:32:39 GMT
Grey would surely not be legal under DDA?
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Post by domh245 on Aug 11, 2016 11:42:01 GMT
All it needs to be is sufficiently different to the background colour, which if it is a darker grey against the white background it should be.
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Post by patrickb on Aug 11, 2016 11:47:09 GMT
I do prefer the colour matching. I'm sick of seeing the same standard blue interior everywhere, why is TfL fixated on having everything white and blue.
Somebody please open a box of crayons or a tin of quality streets at these designers to refresh their sense of design and style once again.
Also, if Grey can't be used. Then perhaps a more fitting alternative would be to have silver Grab Rails. These are definitely used on other Metro's and on newer rolling stock.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 12:03:03 GMT
so new wheelchair bays? - i thought existing wheelchair bays that already in existing trailer cars which has PEA which is on pillar facing wheelchair bay means the existing bays will be replaced with 2 bays in single train? It probably means that as on the 95 stock each trailer car will be fitted with wheelchair backboards either side of the central bay of seats (on one side) meaning each trailer car has space for two wheelchairs. Presumably this will be done to the two original trailers (the 2nd and 6th cars) and not the 2005 build special trailer. Indeed, this overhaul is exactly identical to the one the Northern Line received with some minor differences |
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Post by A60stock on Aug 11, 2016 12:36:46 GMT
Apologies if this is the wrong place but yet again i must ask, why isn't the Bakerloo line getting a refurb in a style to the Northern line or (to come) Jubilee line trains? I know the seats and floors are replaced but other than that, it seems more effort is being placed on a stock that doesn't really need much attention to the inside? Maybe i am wrong and someone can correct me but the Jubilee line interiors seem quite fine to me currently, they do not look out dated and in-fact look rather modern still!
On another note, will all the DMI's inside the carriages be upgraded to the orange text that's used on the newer cars introduced in 2005/2006?
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Post by domh245 on Aug 11, 2016 12:39:28 GMT
Because the Bakerloo replacement fleet is already being procured, whereas the 96 stock is expected to soldier on for a while yet. Would you spend money reupholstering your car when you are about to sign the contract for your new one and consign your old one to the scrapheap?
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Post by Jerome H on Aug 11, 2016 12:43:32 GMT
It's a bit drab, replacing turquoise and yellow with white and grey. Especially with all of the concrete and metal stations down the line. If the Jubille can have grey, and Crossrail can have black, I'm sure the northern could have had black poles.
Will look out for the first set of pics when someone on here spots it, whether or not by chance
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Post by A60stock on Aug 11, 2016 13:13:41 GMT
Because the Bakerloo replacement fleet is already being procured, whereas the 96 stock is expected to soldier on for a while yet. Would you spend money reupholstering your car when you are about to sign the contract for your new one and consign your old one to the scrapheap? Whilst I understand that, the bakerloo line replacement isn't until the 2030's, which is a very long time away, this is why i thought it would make sense to do a proper refurb on them like on the d78 stock when it only had around 10 years of service left! I would understand if the fleet was being replaced in the next few years but as it stands, it won't be, so i don't know how much more run down the current fleet can get! |
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Post by domh245 on Aug 11, 2016 13:19:21 GMT
Because the Bakerloo replacement fleet is already being procured, whereas the 96 stock is expected to soldier on for a while yet. Would you spend money reupholstering your car when you are about to sign the contract for your new one and consign your old one to the scrapheap? Whilst I understand that, the bakerloo line replacement isn't until the 2030's, which is a very long time away, this is why i thought it would make sense to do a proper refurb on them like on the d78 stock when it only had around 10 years of service left! I would understand if the fleet was being replaced in the next few years but as it stands, it won't be, so i don't know how much more run down the current fleet can get! But what exactly would you want from a larger refurbishment? I'm fairly certain that they are having pi$$ installed ( snoggle can confirm?) and they are replacing the floors and seats. |
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Post by phoenixcronin on Aug 11, 2016 13:23:25 GMT
Urine?
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Post by A60stock on Aug 11, 2016 13:25:06 GMT
Something along the lines to match what was done to the d78 stock? With DMIS both internally and externally, repainting the interiors to a white like on the northern line trains? The floors and seats are being replaced but that seems to be the most being done internally. Not sure what you mean by "urine"
Won't these trains fail DDA requirements if DMI's inside the carriages and wheelchair bays are not provided?
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Aug 11, 2016 13:40:57 GMT
Ahem... back to Jubilee interiors please. Create a seperate thread for other tube stock interiors. Thanks
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Post by keppoch69 on Aug 11, 2016 13:46:18 GMT
perhaps he typed "PIS" & the auto correct thought it was being intelligent?? |
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Aug 11, 2016 14:48:08 GMT
perhaps he typed "PIS" & the auto correct thought it was being intelligent?? |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 11, 2016 15:48:43 GMT
perhaps he typed "PIS" & the auto correct thought it was being intelligent?? Well I'm glad that one is sorted out. I thought someone was casting aspertions about my character!   To answer what I think was a question about the Bakerloo Line extra works on the rolling stock then an extra batch of RVAR works are planned after the structural and flooring repairs are completed. The scope of the RVAR works is under discussion with the DfT - presumably to seek derogation from some aspects as they aren't achieveable on such old stock (a guess on my part before anyone asks for details!). All this was set out in content.tfl.gov.uk/fpc-160708-14-bakerloo.pdf. I appreciate we're a bit out of "scope" here for the Jub but hopefully it closes off the debate here. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 16:30:48 GMT
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Post by phoenixcronin on Aug 11, 2016 17:23:32 GMT
Cheers for that. However, haven't they got the floor colours the wrong way round? I thought it's supposed to be dark in the doorways and light elsewhere? |
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Post by domh245 on Aug 11, 2016 17:52:36 GMT
Cheers for that. However, haven't they got the floor colours the wrong way round? I thought it's supposed to be dark in the doorways and light elsewhere? I suppose it makes it slightly less of a Northern line clone. However, that design with the light coloured flooring in the areas with the largest footfall is going to get dirty very quickly. |
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Post by phoenixcronin on Aug 11, 2016 18:06:35 GMT
Cheers for that. However, haven't they got the floor colours the wrong way round? I thought it's supposed to be dark in the doorways and light elsewhere? I suppose it makes it slightly less of a Northern line clone. However, that design with the light coloured flooring in the areas with the largest footfall is going to get dirty very quickly. Indeed. Maybe its just a mistake in the rendered image, as it makes no sense to make the trains look dirtier just to make it different to the Northern Line. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 11, 2016 20:01:26 GMT
So... the seats will not receive any padding then? The original seats were comfortable enough, but the newer seats that replaced everything just feel like wood with moquette over the top. I would hope they will be improved, or at least restored to previous comfort levels?!
Also, good to see that tip up seats will be fitted to replace the perch ones.
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Post by Alight on Aug 11, 2016 20:21:14 GMT
I have a feeling charcoal grey was used for the 3x 1972MkI units that were refurbished during the '90s, although I have never seen proper photographic evidence of this... the picture in Underground Movement (Paul Moss) makes them appear blue! What Paul Moss does say, however, is that the lightly brushed stainless steel originally proposed for the 1996 stock interior grab poles was considered "the worst of all finishes for the visually impaired." As such, the Institute of Consumer Ergonomics of Loughborough recommended grapefruit yellow, which is what they went with in the end for both the Northern and Jubilee lines. The whole fleet is planned to be completed by August 2019. I could have sworn the Northern line mid-life refresh did not take nearly 3 years to complete? I am surprised by this timescale. |
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Post by patrickb on Aug 11, 2016 20:32:13 GMT
I suppose it makes it slightly less of a Northern line clone. However, that design with the light coloured flooring in the areas with the largest footfall is going to get dirty very quickly. Indeed. Maybe its just a mistake in the rendered image, as it makes no sense to make the trains look dirtier just to make it different to the Northern Line. Note that this is the same as the 1972TS interior refresh. Brown on the seating area and white flooring for the rest. There's also the same curved flooring pattern design. |
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Post by phoenixcronin on Aug 11, 2016 20:55:29 GMT
Indeed. Maybe its just a mistake in the rendered image, as it makes no sense to make the trains look dirtier just to make it different to the Northern Line. Note that this is the same as the 1972TS interior refresh. Brown on the seating area and white flooring for the rest. There's also the same curved flooring pattern design. Without wishing to go too far off topic, the reason for the 72 stock floor being the wrong way round is as follows:
"Conventional wisdom was that the doorways had a higher footfall, would be more prone to dirt and so should be darker than seating areas.
In practice, cleaning around nooks and crannies in seating areas meant that the seated areas were not as clean as they ought to be, so following a trial, the lighter floor was specified for the doorway areas. In addition, to improve slip resistance, a new groove pattern was specified which also contributes to draining water from the floor to the outside."
I don't see why the 96 stock would be any more dirty than the 95 stock, which was the "correct" colour floor, so I'm not sure why the colours would have to be reversed.
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Post by patrickb on Aug 11, 2016 21:12:53 GMT
Note that this is the same as the 1972TS interior refresh. Brown on the seating area and white flooring for the rest. There's also the same curved flooring pattern design. Without wishing to go too far off topic, the reason for the 72 stock floor being the wrong way round is as follows:
"Conventional wisdom was that the doorways had a higher footfall, would be more prone to dirt and so should be darker than seating areas.
In practice, cleaning around nooks and crannies in seating areas meant that the seated areas were not as clean as they ought to be, so following a trial, the lighter floor was specified for the doorway areas. In addition, to improve slip resistance, a new groove pattern was specified which also contributes to draining water from the floor to the outside."
I don't see why the 96 stock would be any more dirty than the 95 stock, which was the "correct" colour floor, so I'm not sure why the colours would have to be reversed.
The darker flooring in the seating area will make wear less visible. The parts of the flooring which people who sit will rest their feet on is generally a lot dirtier and doesn't appear to come off so well, even if the floor has just been cleaned. However, a more simple answer could be that the same design of flooring was chosen regardless of concept but altered with Jubilee Line colours... |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 11, 2016 21:59:32 GMT
And the reason for contrasting floors is RVAR related?
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Post by Chris M on Aug 11, 2016 22:45:52 GMT
And the reason for contrasting floors is RVAR related? Yes. To make the doorway areas easier to distinguish for the partially sighted. |
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