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Post by superteacher on Mar 7, 2018 22:16:24 GMT
345 use seems to have increased on TFL Rail. About half the service now runnnig with them. Hopefully they are starting to settle down a bit now. I'd concur with that.... 005-017 seem to have graced us with their presence... The issue is that during the am peak, even at Brentwood (7:45am) towards the front it's standing room only.... and that's the first station.... then there's Harold Wood, Gidea Park, Romford, Chadwell Heath, Goodmayes, Seven Kings... Ilford.... 3 more stations... Stratford..... It took me 4 trains before I could board a train westwards (Central Line) at Stratford... the massive annoyance is that some commuting characters think that it's acceptable to push in front from the sides adjacent to doorways, instead of taking their turn... I know that class 345 Crossrail trains are only currently 7 cars in length and that they will become 9 car trains in time... but already they are packed to the seams... Having travelled on the Central Line from Oxford Circus to Liverpool Street late this afternoon (5:00-5:30pm), there were times when I was concerned with regards the numbers of passengers on the platforms and also the train I was travelling on... Crossrail cannot come soon enough...!! And within 5 years the Central line will be as busy as it is now! I thought most commuters from Brentwood nipped up to Sheffield to get the fast Greater Anglia trains? TFL Rail is so busy now. It’s madness at Stratford in the evening peak. |
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Post by Chris W on Mar 7, 2018 22:26:51 GMT
I remember during my GCSE environmental studies course, watching a TV programme with a Police Officer explaining that the M25, no matter how many lanes.... 3, 4, 5... or 8 in each direction, would fill up in time. www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/widening-m25-not-answer-surreys-12753246Today we're about to witness Crossrail.... east - west / west - east !! Then in the early 2030s there will be Crossrail Mk 2.... north - south / south - north !! Will there be a... Crossrail #3.... north east - south west / south west - north east !! Crossrail #4.... south east - north west / north west - south east !! Crossrail #5... ?? Crossrail #6... ?? London is slowly becoming the creator of it's own downfall.... |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 7, 2018 22:41:28 GMT
Then in the early 2030s there will be Crossrail Mk 2.... north - south / south - north !! Will there be a... Crossrail #3.... north east - south west / south west - north east !! The north-south one is already thirty years old, and is nearing completion of a massive expansion. And now with longer trains than Crossrail's! "Crossrail 2" will be Northeast to South West |
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Post by Chris W on Mar 7, 2018 22:44:55 GMT
Then in the early 2030s there will be Crossrail Mk 2.... north - south / south - north !! Will there be a... Crossrail #3.... north east - south west / south west - north east !! The north-south one is already thirty years old, and is nearing completion of a massive expansion. And now with longer trains than Crossrail's! "Crossrail 2" will be Northeast to South West Regardless of the compass direction.... this just merely proves my point... The trains are having to get longer.... or/and more frequent... Might they need to become 16-20 cars in length, arriving every 2-3 minutes before long...??  |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 8, 2018 9:11:56 GMT
I thought most commuters from Brentwood nipped up to Sheffield to get the fast Greater Anglia trains? I know I quite often like to take circuitous routes for pleasure, but that seems excessive! |
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Post by superteacher on Mar 8, 2018 9:16:02 GMT
I thought most commuters from Brentwood nipped up to Sheffield to get the fast Greater Anglia trains? I know I quite often like to take circuitous routes for pleasure, but that seems excessive! I was about to question your sanity, then spotted my typo! SHENFIELD . . . . |
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Post by peterc on Mar 8, 2018 17:57:21 GMT
I used to confuse the two when I first started buying timetables. I think that I worked it out when I was about 12 though.
If there is a good chance of a random visit producing a 345 then I will watch out for a nice day and take a trip.
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Post by silenthunter on Mar 8, 2018 20:18:19 GMT
If you don't want to stand at the front, head to the back. The walk is good for you.
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 8, 2018 22:00:25 GMT
From a Rail Magazine Article on 05/03/2018"The first two full-length nine-car electric multiple units had been delivered, with 345020 being used for testing between London Paddington and Maidenhead (RAIL 847), and 345021 being used to test Communications Based Train Control (CBTC) on the central section".
"From March 1, two full-length ‘345s’ are due to be based at Old Oak Common (345020 and 345029), with more to follow". |
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Post by superteacher on Mar 9, 2018 7:58:54 GMT
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Post by silenthunter on Mar 9, 2018 19:55:40 GMT
Do we know what train caught fire?
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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 9, 2018 20:16:58 GMT
Do we know what train caught fire? It was a Class 315 unit according to Twitter feeds from passengers. |
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Post by silenthunter on Mar 9, 2018 21:02:02 GMT
OK, then not something that can be used against the new trains.
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Post by Deep Level on Mar 9, 2018 22:47:26 GMT
The last two days there were cancellations due to "more than one train needing repairs at the same time", also four cl345s were at Ilford Depot all day today and I haven't seen any running.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Mar 10, 2018 8:17:43 GMT
They have all been taken out of service again. Something to do with wrong side failures according to the discussion on Rail UK forums.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 10, 2018 8:38:42 GMT
It is getting beyond a joke now. There aren’t enough 315’s to run the whole TFL Rail service now, and only a couple of peak cancellations cause horrific overcrowding.
All new trains have teething troubles, but the 345’s have now been grounded twice. Even the 1992 stock was only grounded once during its introduction!
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Post by Deep Level on Mar 10, 2018 11:04:54 GMT
I have to say TfL Rail somehow coped with it during the morning peak as they managed to only cancel Shenfield bound trains with some other trains skipping stops and so I personally didn't experience overcrowding around 8am.
Also on the evening before the withdrawal my train was emptied before leaving Liverpool Street due to a fault, no idea if this was linked.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 10, 2018 17:29:13 GMT
It is getting beyond a joke now. There aren’t enough 315’s to run the whole TFL Rail service now, and only a couple of peak cancellations cause horrific overcrowding. All new trains have teething troubles, but the 345’s have now been grounded twice. Even the 1992 stock was only grounded once during its introduction! Well I recognise that the TfL Rail service is suffering badly. Whether it's beyond a joke is perhaps debateable given the scale of conflicting issues that Bombardier are trying to handle. It seems there are design issues that in service use is flushing out, there are multiple signalling system interface issues being tested in parallel and the need to build fleet reliability. I do wonder if at some point Bombardier are going to have say "STOP" to try to stabilise both the physical and software design of the Aventras. If they don't then I can't see how they can get enough trains into service with the required functionality from which reliability can be built. If they don't build reliability quickly then the ability to open the Crossrail core must start to be questioned. I can't see TfL wanting to open the route if trains are breaking down every few thousand kilometres. They need mean distance between failures to be in the high thousands or over 10,000 to give the operators a fighting chance of running a decent service. It's clear that getting 345s into Heathrow has been pushed down the priority list to give more time to debug the ETCS signalling interface issues. There are also potentially serious consequences for Bombardier in terms of their ability to deliver the trains to London Overground, Greater Anglia, SWR, West Midlands Trains if they can't get the 345s running properly. If these orders start to struggle then one wonders what will be ordered for the South Eastern franchise. There is a lot to play for. |
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Post by superteacher on Mar 10, 2018 17:39:38 GMT
It’s just such a shame for TfL Rail to go from one of the most reliable services in London to the most unreliable by some distance. I appreciate that these trains are complicated with different signalling systems, but surely some of the issues should have been foreseen? It’s just a shame that they couldn’t have entered service on a less intensive and busy service.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 10, 2018 18:02:43 GMT
It’s just such a shame for TfL Rail to go from one of the most reliable services in London to the most unreliable by some distance. I appreciate that these trains are complicated with different signalling systems, but surely some of the issues should have been foreseen? It’s just a shame that they couldn’t have entered service on a less intensive and busy service. I agree it is a shame as MTR Crossrail had a good start with the service. I am sure that the train supply contract did clearly set out the milestones and issues that Bombardier would have to deal with. Even with the best of efforts the "real world" always throws up something unexpected. The other issue here is that the 345s are the first build of an entirely new train "platform" and we all know what being first can mean. It throws up the majority of the issues. I assume both Bombardier and TfL were reasonably confident that the programme allowed time for issue resolution. Now that confidence is being severely tested but it is for Bombardier to fix. Tedious as it may be it is worth pointing out that getting the Class 700s, 378s and 172s working well on London area services has not been exactly a trouble free experience for GTR and London Overground (LOROL). I certainly expect there will be problems with the 710s once Arriva get enough of them to try bringing them into service. Similar issues over depot space and the need to release old trains are going to crop up on the GOBLIN and West Anglia routes. I suspect Arriva and TfL will hold off for as long as possible before putting any on the NLL (even recognising it's a later order) because the impact of rolling stock failures there will be far more damaging. Hopefully later deliveries will have been "de-bugged" as much as possible. |
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Post by silenthunter on Mar 10, 2018 20:06:23 GMT
In the absolute worse case scenario, you'd have to remove the platform edge doors so you could run other EMUs through the tunnels... but I don't know if conventional signalling is fittede.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 10, 2018 20:13:48 GMT
In the absolute worse case scenario, you'd have to remove the platform edge doors so you could run other EMUs through the tunnels... but I don't know if conventional signalling is fittede. As funny as it would be to see a class 315 in the tunnels, it can’t happen. The only trains in London which are allowed to work in deep tunnels are the class 313’s. Removing the platform edge doors is impractical. |
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Post by silenthunter on Mar 10, 2018 20:16:14 GMT
Why can't a 315 work in deep tunnels? It's got an emergency end door. Just like the 317s and 321s.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 10, 2018 20:36:31 GMT
Why can't a 315 work in deep tunnels? It's got an emergency end door. Just like the 317s and 321s. Clearance issues. On 313’s, the part where the pantograph sits is lower. 315’s don’t have it. |
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Post by silenthunter on Mar 10, 2018 20:41:32 GMT
But what size are they in relation to the 345s?
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Post by Chris M on Mar 10, 2018 20:41:58 GMT
I certainly expect there will be problems with the 710s once Arriva get enough of them to try bringing them into service. Similar issues over depot space and the need to release old trains are going to crop up on the GOBLIN and West Anglia routes. I suspect Arriva and TfL will hold off for as long as possible before putting any on the NLL (even recognising it's a later order) because the impact of rolling stock failures there will be far more damaging. Hopefully later deliveries will have been "de-bugged" as much as possible. I expect that resolving at least some of the issues with 345s will mean those issues don't occur on the 710s as they are based on the same platform. |
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Post by superteacher on Mar 10, 2018 20:48:11 GMT
But what size are they in relation to the 345s? Not sure. |
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Post by domh245 on Mar 10, 2018 21:21:47 GMT
Why can't a 315 work in deep tunnels? It's got an emergency end door. Just like the 317s and 321s. Clearance issues. On 313’s, the part where the pantograph sits is lower. 315’s don’t have it. That depends on if you are trying to run your train down a small sized tunnel, or a considerably larger tunnel, the 315s should easily fit into the crossrail tunnels. Also, FWIW the 315 has exactly the same dimensions as the 313 in the pantograph area, 3582mm to the highest point on the roof, and 3977mm over the pantograph (which is the same type on both) when locked down. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 11, 2018 0:35:16 GMT
Why can't a 315 work in deep tunnels? It's got an emergency end door. Just like the 317s and 321s. 321s don't have end doors Of the mark 3 types, only classes 150/2, 317-319 and 455 had them as built and many have since lost them. The height of the PEP types (313-315) with pan down is surely irrelevant - it would have to be raised to operate anywhere on the Crossrail system. |
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 11, 2018 8:35:10 GMT
The platform doors on Crossrail are much more substantial than on the Jubilee line extension.
They are from floor to ceiling and the upper section has hatches with lots of cables running behind. They also support CCTV cameras and destination displays.
Removing them is not an option.
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