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Post by Deep Level on Jul 22, 2021 18:02:37 GMT
Odd one on my way home today on a 7 car 345. We pull into Stratford and as we stop all of the door not in use signs light up on all doors and as expected none of them opened. Nothing happened for a minute and then the operator announced that they were trying to fix the problem with the doors. Another two minutes past and everyone both on and off the train made their way towards the front of the train so I assume one or multiple doors opened at that end. It was another minute before the doors all opened but by this point most people had hoarded at the front.
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Post by superteacher on Jul 27, 2021 18:22:01 GMT
9 car trains still very much a rarity on TFL Rail east, at least from my observations today.
Very few 315’s too.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jul 27, 2021 19:39:31 GMT
9 car trains still very much a rarity on TFL Rail east, at least from my observations today. Very few 315’s too. Today is due to be the last booked day of 315s. 6x 9-car 345s a day provided from OOC from tomorrow. 315s remain available to cover adhoc for another couple months. |
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Post by superteacher on Jul 27, 2021 20:01:22 GMT
9 car trains still very much a rarity on TFL Rail east, at least from my observations today. Very few 315’s too. Today is due to be the last booked day of 315s. 6x 9-car 345s a day provided from OOC from tomorrow. 315s remain available to cover adhoc for another couple months. Hopefully they will do a last official 315 run at some point. Are TFL Rail east drivers trained over the core yet? |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 28, 2021 12:01:42 GMT
Hopefully they will do a last official 315 run at some point. I understand there is a desire to do this, but for a variety of reasons (practical, financial) it's very much not guaranteed. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 30, 2021 10:12:47 GMT
9 car trains still very much a rarity on TFL Rail east, at least from my observations today. Very few 315’s too. Today is due to be the last booked day of 315s. 6x 9-car 345s a day provided from OOC from tomorrow. 315s remain available to cover adhoc for another couple months. awwww, so sad |
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Post by sunnyday on Jul 30, 2021 13:46:04 GMT
Today is due to be the last booked day of 315s. 6x 9-car 345s a day provided from OOC from tomorrow. 315s remain available to cover adhoc for another couple months. Hopefully they will do a last official 315 run at some point. Are TFL Rail east drivers trained over the core yet? The vast majority of East drivers are now trained in the central section. There are booked jobs once or twice a week down there for us. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Dec 14, 2021 16:19:00 GMT
Following the latest timetable change on 12 December, TFL Rail East has now has a 345 roster all made up of 9-car units. There are still a few residual transfers outstanding to close out the lengthening process and whilst these have been taking place, 7-car working has briefly returned to select diagrams on TFL Rail West.
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Post by Chris L on Dec 14, 2021 17:39:19 GMT
Following the latest timetable change on 12 December, TFL Rail East has now has a 345 roster all made up of 9-car units. There are still a few residual transfers outstanding to close out the lengthening process and whilst these have been taking place, 7-car working has briefly returned to select diagrams on TFL Rail West. I saw a Twitter message which showed a 7 car Class 345 being dragged west via the North London Line. It said it was the last such move. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 15, 2021 2:27:37 GMT
Following the latest timetable change on 12 December, TFL Rail East has now has a 345 roster all made up of 9-car units. There are still a few residual transfers outstanding to close out the lengthening process and whilst these have been taking place, 7-car working has briefly returned to select diagrams on TFL Rail West. I saw a Twitter message which showed a 7 car Class 345 being dragged west via the North London Line. It said it was the last such move. I did not realise the western section was running 7 car, I thought they were all 9 car. The eastern part still has 315's there seems to be more 9 cars on the east now. A bit strange the train would be towed via North London Line to the west from east. Was it not possible for it to use the new tunnels or even drive under its own steam over the north london line tracks. |
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Post by Chris L on Dec 15, 2021 7:53:27 GMT
I saw a Twitter message which showed a 7 car Class 345 being dragged west via the North London Line. It said it was the last such move. I did not realise the western section was running 7 car, I thought they were all 9 car. The eastern part still has 315's there seems to be more 9 cars on the east now. A bit strange the train would be towed via North London Line to the west from east. Was it not possible for it to use the new tunnels or even drive under its own steam over the north london line tracks. 9 car only in the core section now. |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 15, 2021 11:34:43 GMT
A bit strange the train would be towed via North London Line to the west from east. Was it not possible for it to use the new tunnels or even drive under its own steam over the north london line tracks. I don't think there are any drivers trained on both Class 345s and the North London Line, so it might be cheaper (and safer in this era of social distancing) for a single driver to haul than to have a driver and a conductor. I'm uncertain also whether the 345s are even cleared to run under their own power on the NLL. |
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Post by d7666 on Dec 15, 2021 14:15:33 GMT
A bit strange the train would be towed via North London Line to the west from east. Was it not possible for it to use the new tunnels or even drive under its own steam over the north london line tracks. I don't think there are any drivers trained on both Class 345s and the North London Line, so it might be cheaper (and safer in this era of social distancing) for a single driver to haul than to have a driver and a conductor. I'm uncertain also whether the 345s are even cleared to run under their own power on the NLL. I think you are right on the crew knowledge issue; don't think even the relevant crew depots are the same. Not all 345s are the same; I not checked but was the unit in question a 7car - AFAIK 7car not allowed in XR tunnel, only 9car. If it's not that, it may also be software mods, it takes time to roll that out. |
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Post by bomo on Dec 15, 2021 15:38:03 GMT
A bit strange the train would be towed via North London Line to the west from east. Was it not possible for it to use the new tunnels or even drive under its own steam over the north london line tracks. I don't think there are any drivers trained on both Class 345s and the North London Line, so it might be cheaper (and safer in this era of social distancing) for a single driver to haul than to have a driver and a conductor. I'm uncertain also whether the 345s are even cleared to run under their own power on the NLL. The main problem is there isn't an electrified route* from Ilford to Old Oak Common via the North London Line.
*Assuming that reversing off the WLL into North Pole depot, reversing again in the depot then proceeding to Royal Oak sidings and then reversing again isn't considered a viable proposition.
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Post by brigham on Dec 16, 2021 8:36:59 GMT
I'm surprised the move hasn't been done using road transport.
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Post by goldenarrow on Dec 16, 2021 13:00:30 GMT
Towing 345's is now well established practise. After being towed from Ilford to Old Oak Common, newly lengthened units can return under their own power via the core now that the fringes have been commissioned. The core has only ever been able to accept 345's as Full-Length Units (FLU).
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Post by t697 on Dec 16, 2021 19:33:30 GMT
The core has only ever been able to accept 345's as Full-Length Units (FLU). Whereas classical signalling schemes can cope with a wide range of train lengths! Especially if it's just a stock transfer. Not asking for full PEDs compatibility here.. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 16, 2021 20:36:55 GMT
Whereas classical signalling schemes can cope with a wide range of train lengths! Another problem we never had with lights on sticks - the system knew (roughly) where both the front and back of the train was with the just the aid of the train's wheels. |
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Post by Chris L on Dec 16, 2021 21:47:07 GMT
Towing 345's is now well established practise. After being towed from Ilford to Old Oak Common, newly lengthened units can return under their own power via the core now that the fringes have been commissioned. The core has only ever been able to accept 345's as Full-Length Units (FLU). There were 7 car trains in the core section in the early days of testing. Single train. |
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 16, 2021 22:53:30 GMT
I did not realise the western section was running 7 car, I thought they were all 9 car. The eastern part still has 315's there seems to be more 9 cars on the east now. Are the 315s still being used? |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 18, 2021 1:19:07 GMT
Towing 345's is now well established practise. After being towed from Ilford to Old Oak Common, newly lengthened units can return under their own power via the core now that the fringes have been commissioned. The core has only ever been able to accept 345's as Full-Length Units (FLU). Surely this has to be a backward step. I cannot understand why would they develop a system that cannot even take out of service trains, no matter what length of the train it is. You would think in this world of software you can do so much, but it seems even worse. I am sure if this was 40 years ago, any train would have went through there as long as there was no clearance issues. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 18, 2021 1:20:30 GMT
I did not realise the western section was running 7 car, I thought they were all 9 car. The eastern part still has 315's there seems to be more 9 cars on the east now. Are the 315s still being used? Yes, I saw a few in service today (Friday). Seems they even run well into the evening. |
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Post by dm1 on Dec 18, 2021 14:17:51 GMT
Surely this has to be a backward step. I cannot understand why would they develop a system that cannot even take out of service trains, no matter what length of the train it is. You would think in this world of software you can do so much, but it seems even worse. I am sure if this was 40 years ago, any train would have went through there as long as there was no clearance issues. By definition any in-cab signalling system moves part of the signalling from the infrastructure onto the train. Therefore in order to operate a train on the infrastructure safely, it has to be equipped with the right equipment and software on board. That does mean some loss of flexibility, but in theory it also means much less maintenance on the tracks, as there is much less to go wrong (no trainstops or signal aspects to fail for example). Since Crossrail was never designed to be an interoperable railway, that flexibility is also not really needed. Once it is open 99% of the trains will be Class 345s, and any engineering trains can also be fitted with the system or operate in blockades as necessary. The reason 7-cars can't go through the tunnel is that at some point the software on them was frozen and only the 9-car software was worked on, in order to avoid needing to maintain two software versions at the same time. Therefore the 7-car software is now several years out of date compared to the 9-car software, so is no longer compatible with the signalling. Given how late and problematic the software development continues to be, that was probably a wise decision, even if it does mean occasionally towing a train the long way round. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 29, 2021 20:24:04 GMT
All 70 class 345 have now been delivered:
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 1, 2022 14:19:17 GMT
All 70 class 345 have now been delivered: I notice there is provision for the trains to be extended to 11 car in the future in this article. Has the stations in the tunnel have a length to accommodate 11 car working. This would be a bit of a bogus one on stations like Seven Kings, Maryland, Forest Gate, Manor Park that does not appear to be able to be extended without bridge or engineering work. Final Crossrail train delivery arrives in LondonThe last train ordered from Bombardier as part of a 70-strong fleet for Elizabeth Line services is on its way to London.www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2021/12/29/final-crossrail-train-delivery-arrives-in-london/ |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 1, 2022 18:59:51 GMT
Core stations do indeed have passive provision for 240m long trains. At most core stations this is clearly visible within the passenger area as ‘blank’ Platform Screen Doors or additional platform space. The exception to this is Paddington (Crossrail) which has provision space within the transition area between station box and running tunnel.
The core is frankly the least of the infrastructure worries in the event of 240m unit running given that almost every surface station platform and many track layouts would need modding to avoid copious amounts of Selective Door Operation (SDO). Spare a thought for little Hanwell which would have around 96m of train (4 cars + 2 doors) off the edge of the platform if unmodified!
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Post by Chris L on Jan 1, 2022 19:08:32 GMT
Core stations do indeed have passive provision for 240m long trains equivalent to an eleven car Class 345. At most core stations this is clearly visible within the passenger area as ‘blank’ Platform Screen Doors or additional platform space. The exception to this is Paddington (Crossrail) which has provision space within the transition area between station box and running tunnel. The core is frankly the least of the infrastructure worries in the event of eleven car running given that almost every surface station platform and many track layouts would need modding to avoid copious amounts of Selective Door Operation (SDO). Spare a thought for little Hanwell which would have around 96m of train (4 cars + 2 doors) off the edge of the platform if unmodified! The worst station if 11 car operation was ever introduced would be Maryland. Road bridges at either end of the already short platforms. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 1, 2022 19:16:23 GMT
Provision for longer trains, then 12 car instead of 10, was built in from first conception of Crossrail. More recently the preferred first upgrade has been from 24tph to 30tph (see link which pre-dates money troubles). |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 3, 2022 21:13:01 GMT
Are the 315s still being used? Yes, I saw a few in service today (Friday). Seems they even run well into the evening. Thanks, Sorry that I missed your reply earlier. Long may their use continue! |
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Post by Chris L on Jan 4, 2022 14:13:14 GMT
Yes, I saw a few in service today (Friday). Seems they even run well into the evening. Thanks, Sorry that I missed your reply earlier. Long may their use continue! Don't think it will. 315844/854 headed off for scrapping at Newport today. |
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