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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 12, 2018 9:47:22 GMT
....... what is meant by 'the Hammersmith branch'. I have always understood references to "the Hammersmith branch" to mean Paddington to Hammersmith - as it is the only section of route that fits the general rule that branch lines are usually named after their terminus - we don't talk about the Golders Green branch, or the Hillingdon branch, or the Kew Gardens branch - but whatever happened to the "St Johns Wood branch"
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jul 12, 2018 10:33:48 GMT
....... what is meant by 'the Hammersmith branch'. I have always understood references to "the Hammersmith branch" to mean Paddington to Hammersmith - as it is the only section of route that fits the general rule that branch lines are usually named after their terminus - we don't talk about the Golders Green branch, or the Hillingdon branch, or the Kew Gardens branch - but whatever happened to the "St Johns Wood branch" Which gives us the interesting result that, as it cannot be a branch of the H&C line, as that is topologically a straight line, it can only be a branch of a circle!
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londoner
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Post by londoner on Jul 12, 2018 11:28:07 GMT
I have always understood references to "the Hammersmith branch" to mean Paddington to Hammersmith - as it is the only section of route that fits the general rule that branch lines are usually named after their terminus - we don't talk about the Golders Green branch, or the Hillingdon branch, or the Kew Gardens branch - but whatever happened to the "St Johns Wood branch" Which gives us the interesting result that, as it cannot be a branch of the H&C line, as that is topologically a straight line, it can only be a branch of a circle! The circle and the Hammersmith and city line have the same topological properties. EDIT: My mistake, apologies.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jul 12, 2018 11:52:51 GMT
Which gives us the interesting result that, as it cannot be a branch of the H&C line, as that is topologically a straight line, it can only be a branch of a circle! The circle and the Hammersmith and city line have the same topological properties. [Possible thread split needed] No they are not. The H&C line is topologically a straight line. To be topologically equivalent, the points on a line must retain the same order. If you make the circle line a straight line the Paddington (D&C) to Edgware Road order is broken.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jul 12, 2018 12:05:10 GMT
It is the Hammersmith branch of the Metropolitan Railway.
Back to signals
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 12, 2018 16:53:25 GMT
Which gives us the interesting result that, as it cannot be a branch of the H&C line, as that is topologically a straight line, it can only be a branch of a circle! We probably need to distinguish between the physical network (the permanent way) and the services that are run on that network (the various "lines" of the Underground), which can be changed relatively easily - the only infrastructure changes needed to change the Circle to a T-Cup were some new signs. The new signalling is part of the SSR infrastructure, and as far as that is concerned Praed Street Junction to Hammersmith is a branch, as it is only connected to the rest of the network at one end.
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Post by malcolmffc on Jul 22, 2018 7:19:58 GMT
Is SMA0.5 being tested this weekend as scheduled?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 22, 2018 8:40:03 GMT
Is SMA0.5 being tested this weekend as scheduled? SMA 1 and 2 also
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Post by xplaistow on Jul 23, 2018 10:56:44 GMT
Any news about how well (or badly) the testing went this weekend?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 23, 2018 11:18:17 GMT
Any news about how well (or badly) the testing went this weekend? Seems it went well; first S8 Stock operated automatically; use of refurbished Swiss Cottage crossover.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 12:07:52 GMT
I wonder if someone had the foresight to use current Met late evening closures (tunnel repair works between Baker Street to Finchley Road) for signalling works.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 12:30:53 GMT
They are carrying out major tunnel refurbishment plus renewing the track drainage so there not much time for anything else
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 21:36:54 GMT
New date just announced for SMA 0.5 itโs 22/23 September 2018
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 5, 2018 19:10:21 GMT
22nd yes.... ....July no. I've got 22/23 Sssss..ss.something in my diary. -- Nick Indeed - my initial information was based on an email put out at the time of the failed attempt to start using CBTC (Communications Based Train Control) between Latimer Road and Hammersmith (known as SMA 0.5) in June. SMA is a Signalling Migration Area. There has since been a review of the failed start up attempt in June it was decided to wait until after Notting Hill carnival to make sure everything really is ready. The initial route cause of the failed start up attempt in June was trains arriving at Latimer Road not ready to enter the CBTC area. The problem was one type of tag on the track (there's four types) confusing the VOBC's (vehicle On Board Controller) such that trains were arriving at Latimer Road not ready to communicate with the CBTC system and thus had to enter the CBTC area using the restricted mode re-entry procedure. Not only does restricted mode see trains operate at a maximum of 9.9mph, but it can only be selected once the signaller sets the system up and gives permission. This of course caused immense delays to the train service. Not only that but one train suffered a failed latch relay (system that prevents the tripcock being used) and a non CBTC fitted train also made it to Latimer Road (misunderstanding over a train originating from Barking sidings). Whislt Thales were confident the tag issue could be resolved quickly, it was realised on the Saturday afternoon that the number of CBTC fitted S7's available for service on the Monday morning was so tight that cancelations were possible if any further units failed. The Head of Line Operations (Circle, District and Hammersmith & City) therefore took the decision on the Saturday afternoon to revert to the legacy signalling system to allow more time for all the issues to be understood and dealt with. IMO he made the right move. So yes, 22nd & 23rd September is the new date for 0.5 - many more S7's will be CBTC fitted by then and plenty more testing time should iron out the other issues identified. As before, the full timetable will operate with trains running empty in the CBTC area on the Saturday. If confidence in the CBTC system is good, the stations will open to the public sometime on the Sunday afternoon. -------------------------------------------- Moving forward, the date for SMA 1 (Ladbroke Grove to Paddington) is 21st October......if all is well they'll go public during the afternoon. There's a planned test of SMA2 (Paddinngton/Finchley Road to Euston Square) on 29th & 30th September. SMA 2 is currently planned to go live to the public in January/February 2019 - bear in mind that all S8's must be CBTC fitted and all Metropolitan/west end District drivers will need to be trained for this milestone. SMA3 (Kings Cross to Stepney Green/Monument) is the really big milsetone as all S7's will need to be CBTC fitted and all District line drivers must be trained. Current date for SMA3 is May 2019. -------------------------------------------- In terms of trackside equipment being installed, they're currently installing stuff in SMA's 4 (Cannon Street to Sloane Square), 5 (South Kensington to Bayswater/Fulham Broadway/Barons Court) and 6 (Mile End to Becontree). They say we'll go live on each SMA roughly every six weeks after SMA3.....given the current rate of installation, this seems entirely plausible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 10:47:03 GMT
How many SMAs are there?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 6, 2018 11:39:00 GMT
15, or 12 in reality 0.5 Hammersmith - Latimer Road 1 Latimer Road - Paddington H&C 2 Paddington H&C -Euston Square 3 Euston Square - Monument / Stepney Green 4 Monument - Sloane Square 5 Sloane Square - Paddington Circle / Barons Court / Olympia 6 Stepney Green - Becontree 7 Becontree - Upminster 8 Finchley Road - Preston Road 9 Preston Road - West Harrow / Moor Park 10 / 11 Barons Court - South Ealing / Ealing Broadway / North Ealing / Richmond 12 Fulham Broadway - Wimbledon 13 Moor Park - Amersham / Chesham / Watford 14 South Harrow / West Harrow - Uxbridge
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 12:21:06 GMT
Wow, that's rather extensive. But, of course, not surprising - with the complexity of SSR network.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 6, 2018 13:55:45 GMT
Add 0.5 to 1 and that's your 14 VCC area's. (Vehicle Control Centre)
Each VCC is made up of three computers and two of the three must agree for any action to take place. The VCC looks after train movemements, safe seperation of trains, points, etc, etc in its area.
In the future, a signal systems failure involving one of these fourteen going down.........well almost all of them will cause big damage to the railway if and when they fail as all trains in the given VCC area will need to be moved individually by the signallers....and only at 10mph. Ouch!!
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cso
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Post by cso on Aug 6, 2018 14:24:04 GMT
well almost all of them will cause big damage to the railway if and when they fail as all trains in the given VCC area will need to be moved individually by the signallers....and only at 10mph. Ouch!! I'm going to assume you mean by the driver under the authority of the signaller? Your statement to me makes me imagine the signaller sitting with an old-fashioned Joystick moving trains
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Post by superteacher on Aug 6, 2018 14:27:56 GMT
well almost all of them will cause big damage to the railway if and when they fail as all trains in the given VCC area will need to be moved individually by the signallers....and only at 10mph. Ouch!! I'm going to assume you mean by the driver under the authority of the signaller? Your statement to me makes me imagine the signaller sitting with an old-fashioned Joystick moving trains I'm sure you'd enjoy that!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 6, 2018 18:36:50 GMT
I'm going to assume you mean by the driver under the authority of the signaller? Sorry, I should have been clearer - yes, in a failure scenario the signaller must set up each individual train to work in a restricted mode.....and then speak to the driver in order to authorise them to change modes and move their train [at 10mph]. Trains may only be authorised from one particular point to another particular point and cannot be authorised from one station all the way to another in one go (unless of course its a very short distance like Cannon Street to Monument)......so under failure conditions it'll take an absolute age to pass through a given area. We've been told "its great when it works, but expect to do at least four hours overtime when it goes down"
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Post by bruce on Aug 7, 2018 16:38:03 GMT
I'm going to assume you mean by the driver under the authority of the signaller? Sorry, I should have been clearer - yes, in a failure scenario the signaller must set up each individual train to work in a restricted mode.....and then speak to the driver in order to authorise them to change modes and move their train [at 10mph]. Trains may only be authorised from one particular point to another particular point and cannot be authorised from one station all the way to another in one go (unless of course its a very short distance like Cannon Street to Monument)......so under failure conditions it'll take an absolute age to pass through a given area. We've been told "its great when it works, but expect to do at least four hours overtime when it goes down" And they call this progress!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 16:46:07 GMT
Sorry, I should have been clearer - yes, in a failure scenario the signaller must set up each individual train to work in a restricted mode.....and then speak to the driver in order to authorise them to change modes and move their train [at 10mph]. Trains may only be authorised from one particular point to another particular point and cannot be authorised from one station all the way to another in one go (unless of course its a very short distance like Cannon Street to Monument)......so under failure conditions it'll take an absolute age to pass through a given area. We've been told "its great when it works, but expect to do at least four hours overtime when it goes down" And they call this progress!
Some call it progress. I call it vandalism
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 9, 2018 17:48:04 GMT
Couldn't find the post that previously mentioned this but on closer inspection today, it appears that much of the newly added cable mounts and brackets between Finchley Rd and Neasden have been piled in to a more snug position with evidence of freshly packed ballast and those ribbed plastic tubes that form part of the foundations being put in place.
By and by, from West Hampstead to Willesden Green, it blends in pretty well with the existing cable structures.
Dollis Hill to Neasden has quite a bit of lateral weaving but that's to get around various junction boxes, axle counters and some ironically disused Jubilee line signals.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 9, 2018 18:12:17 GMT
Couldn't find the post that previously mentioned this but on closer inspection today, it appears that much of the newly added cable mounts and brackets between Finchley Rd and Neasden have been piled in to a more smug position with evidence of freshly packed ballast and those ribbed plastic tubes that form part of the fondations being put in place. By and by, from West Hampstead to Dollis Willesden Green, it blends in pretty well with the existing cable structures. Dollis Hill to Neasden has quite a bit of lateral weaving but that's to get around various junction boxes, axel counters and some ironically disused Jubilee line signals. I assume you meant "snug"! Got this image now of a signal cable looking very pleased with itself!
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 9, 2018 18:21:57 GMT
Couldn't find the post that previously mentioned this but on closer inspection today, it appears that much of the newly added cable mounts and brackets between Finchley Rd and Neasden have been piled in to a more smug position with evidence of freshly packed ballast and those ribbed plastic tubes that form part of the fondations being put in place. By and by, from West Hampstead to Dollis Willesden Green, it blends in pretty well with the existing cable structures. Dollis Hill to Neasden has quite a bit of lateral weaving but that's to get around various junction boxes, axel counters and some ironically disused Jubilee line signals. I assume you meant "snug"! Go this image now of a signal cable looking very pleased with itself! Thanks, post corrected. Six hours down the rabbit hole, that's all I'm saying.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 24, 2018 23:19:19 GMT
This message has just arrived in my inbox. No reason was quoted.
Simon
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Now gone further back to Saturday 20 & Sunday 21 October for Hammersmith to Latimer Road although that's not even guaranteed right now....
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 25, 2018 19:33:47 GMT
This message has just arrived in my inbox. No reason was quoted. Simon -------------------------------------------------------- Now gone further back to Saturday 20 & Sunday 21 October for Hammersmith to Latimer Road although that's not even guaranteed right now.... ๐Some signallers must be feeling very smug...
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Post by beingcharley on Aug 25, 2018 20:08:35 GMT
This message has just arrived in my inbox. No reason was quoted. Simon -------------------------------------------------------- Now gone further back to Saturday 20 & Sunday 21 October for Hammersmith to Latimer Road although that's not even guaranteed right now.... ๐Some signallers must be feeling very smug... ๐๐ผโโ๏ธ๐๐ผโโ๏ธโบ๏ธ
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 12, 2018 11:54:47 GMT
Thereโs been a significant update to the CTBC software and given that it needs to be properly tested, the go live date for 0.5 has moved again.....
New date is 17th/18th November
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