Next Train Indicator upgrades as part of 4LM

[Deleted]

As this article by Diamond Geezer has reported on, several stations on the SSR have been or are scheduled to have their Next Train Indicator feeds upgraded as part of the Four Lines Modernisation (4LM). My question is, will the Next Train Indicator upgrades be carried out independently to re-signalling or will it be progressively rolled out with the Signal Migration Areas (SMA's)?


Many Thanks,

Martin

[Deleted]

As part of 4LM the back end systems in the stations affected are being upgraded to accept data feeds from new sources (i.e. sources such as Trackernet and CBTC). This part of the work will be complete before the new signalling comes along and once this is done the indicators can supply information from Trackernet. This should be better than what's there at the moment (in many cases there is nothing there at present) but is still reliant on rather limited information from legacy local signalling with a bit of extra processing done by Trackernet.

As the CBTC system is switched on the indicators should get the new data feeds at the same time.

[knap]

Have noticed indicators on Platforms 1 & 3 at Harrow-on-the-Hill provides a message advising times of next fast Amersham and Chesham with a comment to await platform confirmation. This is better than when they first started when they showed the same trains arriving on both platforms, only changing to correct details when I assume the actual route was set. So I assume some tinkering has been done. It will be useful to have some displays at the north end of the Met

[Dstock7080]

Jun 20, 2017 8:51:35 GMT knap said:

It will be useful to have some displays at the north end of the Met

Indeed and the list includes:
Croxley, Chorleywood, Chalfont & Latimer, Amersham and Chesham.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 8:51:35 GMT knap said:

Have noticed indicators on Platforms 1 & 3 at Harrow-on-the-Hill provides a message advising times of next fast Amersham and Chesham with a comment to await platform confirmation. This is better than when they first started when they showed the same trains arriving on both platforms, only changing to correct details when I assume the actual route was set. So I assume some tinkering has been done.

Southbound Platforms 5&6 have more or less been remedied but the Northbound Platforms still can be trouble. For example when post morning peak terminating services cross from the fast lines to Platform 4 to access the reversing siding, the system shows "not in service" on both platforms. Shortly after, an Uxbridge train could and usually is given the diversionary route into Platform 3 whilst the terminating train is taken out of service on 4. Now despite Platform 3 being now routed/signalled for the Uxbridge service the Platform 3 indicator will still display "not in service" at the top. Thankfully PA announcements at Harrow are usually reliable so it doesn't usually cause too much confusion. What is slightly annoying is that visibility of the NTI's at Harrow is quite strenuous even when standing at mid-point on the platforms, by the time you get to the end of the canopy it is almost obscured by the clocks. 

[roman80]

Any idea of what is planned for Earls Court in terms of upgrades to the displays? I hope it's not just better information on the tiny screens currently in use. These screens can only be read if you are standing next to them. The next train out indicator on the heritage listed board is useful. In a perfect world, new indicators retaining that feature that could be seen along the whole platform would be ideal.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 15:44:39 GMT roman80 said:

Any idea of what is planned for Earls Court in terms of upgrades to the displays? I hope it's not just better information on the tiny screens currently in use. These screens can only be read if you are standing next to them. The next train out indicator on the heritage listed board is useful. In a perfect world, new indicators retaining that feature that could be seen along the whole platform would be ideal.

In most cases, stations with pre existing electronic NTI's will only have their information feed modified so there will be no physical changes to the dimensions of boards although the text they display may be of a better quality and time frame. At Earls Court it would be difficult to conceive how those small display screens more commonly found in ticket halls could display calling points etc. Hopefully the interfacing with the heritage light boxes will be given consideration unlike at Harrow where they were disposed of.

[Deleted]

The ones at Earls Court and indeed the W/B sign at Gloucester Road are listed and cannot be removed completely.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 16:55:09 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

The ones at Earls Court and indeed the W/B sign at Gloucester Road are listed and cannot be removed completely.

Do the terms of the listing state whether they must be in operational condition or is that down to the discretion of LU?

[Deleted]

They don't have to be operational if you take Gloucester Road as an example they haven't worked for a while I don't think

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 19:03:32 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

They don't have to be operational if you take Gloucester Road as an example they haven't worked for a while I don't think

Looks like time will tell wether we could looking at the last few years of the Earls Court light boxes doing their job before SMA 5, thanks for the insight.



Martin

[crusty54]

Jun 20, 2017 20:27:53 GMT @martin12 said:

Jun 20, 2017 19:03:32 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

They don't have to be operational if you take Gloucester Road as an example they haven't worked for a while I don't think

Looks like time will tell wether we could looking at the last few years of the Earls Court light boxes doing their job before SMA 5, thanks for the insight.



Martin

As stated in a previous thread, the boxes at Earls Court are replicas made by AJ Wells & Sons a few years ago so they will work as long as they receive information to display.

[Ben]

Yes the loss of Harrow's light boxes was a real shame, especially after a length refurb on them only a few years ago (waste of money?). Did they go to the depot?

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 21:23:55 GMT Ben said:

Yes the loss of Harrow's light boxes was a real shame, especially after a length refurb on them only a few years ago (waste of money?). Did they go to the depot?

This is what really made my blood boil, there was barley an inkling as to the fate of the light boxes once they were removed because no one sought to bother as they aren't listed as Earls Court's light boxes are. Some staff were only made aware 3 to 5 days before their LED replacements were installed. Most of the staff I know there assumed all were disposed of with no indication from London Transport Museum friends that they have acquired some although since the light boxes were in a fairly good state of repair it may not have been widely publicised, a visit to the depot on the next open day should test that theory. Thankfully Harrow's signal cabin faces a more secure future being scooped up by the NRM once SMA 9 goes live. Yet again this information was confirmed by a London Travel Watch report in 2009 but has remained little mentioned ever since.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2017 21:14:16 GMT crusty54 said:

Jun 20, 2017 20:27:53 GMT @martin12 said:

Looks like time will tell wether we could looking at the last few years of the Earls Court light boxes doing their job before SMA 5, thanks for the insight.



Martin

As stated in a previous thread, the boxes at Earls Court are replicas made by AJ Wells & Sons a few years ago so they will work as long as they receive information to display.

They are not replicas they were refurbished internally and new plates made by AJ Wells