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Post by superteacher on Aug 22, 2017 21:01:40 GMT
Interesting read: 1londonblog.uk/2017/07/kings-cross-shoddy-green-lanes/I saw them the other day. Not sure what to make of it, but most previous attempts at changing passenger behaviour seem to have failed. I'm sure they tried something similar on the Jubilee line a few years ago. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 22, 2017 21:33:16 GMT
I'm sure they tried something similar on the Jubilee line a few years ago. They did, in 2008 Platform etiquette being trialled on the Jubilee lineGiven that we never heard the official outcome but the six month trial wasn't extended I think it's safe to assume it wasn't a success. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 23, 2017 0:19:33 GMT
And something similar was trialled on the Northern line last year. I forget all the stations, but it includes King's Cross and I believe all of the trial stations still have the altered markings in place.
Again... no word on whether it was deemed a success or not.
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Post by brigham on Aug 23, 2017 7:48:52 GMT
People in a crowd are generally not looking at the ground.
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Post by shunterl44 on Aug 23, 2017 8:07:39 GMT
There are now blue 'footprints' on the right hand side of both escalators at Marylebone - an extension of Passenger etiquette maybe?
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cso
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Post by cso on Aug 23, 2017 8:27:11 GMT
There are now blue 'footprints' on the right hand side of both escalators at Marylebone - an extension of Passenger etiquette maybe? I find it more amusing that from the bottom to the top, you can see a message printed on the uprights of each step... which isn't much use if you are on the Down escalator! |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 23, 2017 9:07:23 GMT
There are now blue 'footprints' on the right hand side of both escalators at Marylebone - an extension of Passenger etiquette maybe? Not just Marylebone. I've only ever seen one person take any notice of them, and that was to fret that she wasn't in the right place because she was on the right hand side of the escalator but standing on a step between the footprints. I think this was at Holborn. |
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Post by brigham on Aug 23, 2017 10:58:07 GMT
I used to like 'following the lights' at Kings Cross.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Aug 23, 2017 12:49:40 GMT
I used to like 'following the lights' at Kings Cross. What the red ones  |
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Post by 1018509 on Aug 23, 2017 14:55:57 GMT
I used to like 'following the lights' at Kings Cross. What the red ones Is this an Oyster Card add on? |
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Post by metrider on Aug 23, 2017 21:14:53 GMT
People in a crowd are generally not looking at the ground. Head down but looking at mobile  In all seriousness though. About a week ago, on the Vic, evening rush, I awaited at Green Park, I was to be first off on a single leaf end door. Train stopped. Door opening... A solid platform crowd, maybe two people deep parted leaving a singe person wide, three person deep channel to the wall side of the platform. Fair enough. not much more they could do. One girl moved to block the end of the channel obviously thinking "hey here's spare space!" Not thinking that if we can't get off, she can't get on, and that others must have been waiting longer. I shrugged, palms upwards, projecting an amazed "what are you thinking?" expression. That drew some laughs form those who had moved aside. From 'her' however I got a 'put out' expression but she did begrudgingly move aside. Still more manners than you get on HoH p3/4. There nobody seems to have figured out you stand aside to let others off. Back on topic.... Green lanes.... Nah! What I think MIGHT work are arrows or chevrons on the platform depicting actual flows.... Along the platform wall edge of the platform one row of arrows/chevrons indicating a lane for moving towards the front of the train, and just outside that a lane of arrows/chevrons indicating the other direction. In platform entrance/exit passages with arrows /chevrons making the preferred flow. Possibly No Entry signs on the exit end of such passages, but on the floor.. Those who know the short cut will not be looking at the sign above the exit of the "Exit only in emergency" signs at head height. (Thinking Baker st bakerloo northbound, platform exit 1/3 win from head of train, and Green Park Jubillee N/B platform exit to escalators to wards Vic., green park Vic entrances/exits towards Jubilee - the one way stairs). Whether the offenders would heed the markings more positioned in their field of view is anyones guess...Maybe.... When you know where you are going (majority of those in rush hour), you are probably looking more down than up (if you have manners, head NOT in mobile!). If you don't know where you are going then you are looking up at the signage. Preventing 'knowledgable' passengers crowding expected door locations is impossible (I suppose the solution there is train slightly shorter than platform, that can stop in slightly randomised places (just a couple of yards fore or aft...enough that there is no 'best' spot to stand) Not going to happen however - the train length is needed for passengers..., metrider |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 23, 2017 23:13:24 GMT
What I think MIGHT work are arrows or chevrons on the platform depicting actual flows.... This is sort of what was tried in 2008 (see pictures in the blog linked in the first post of the old thread), at least at some stations (there were a variety of designs trialled) there were lane markings perpendicular to the platform edge with arrows pointing away from the train by the doors. The only thing that I can thing would work would be physical segregation between platform flows. The diagram below is my first mockup, with brown lines being barriers and orange ones gates (blue lines are passenger flows). There are many problems with it though, such as how to arriving passengers leave the platform? What happens when there are multiple exits from the platform? How does it work when one doorway is available for boarding while passengers are still alighting from an adjacent one? Does it allow passengers waiting by a one doorway to move and board though the another (due to different alighting volumes, position of available seats/standing space, etc)? How much does it reduce platform capacity by? How does it cope with differently spaced train doorways? How does it cope with extended dwell times when there is time for passengers arriving on the platform to join the train? There are probably others too.  |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 24, 2017 8:04:31 GMT
What I think MIGHT work are arrows or chevrons on the platform depicting actual flows.... This is sort of what was tried in 2008 (see pictures in the blog linked in the first post of the old thread), at least at some stations (there were a variety of designs trialled) there were lane markings perpendicular to the platform edge with arrows pointing away from the train by the doors. The only thing that I can thing would work would be physical segregation between platform flows. The diagram below is my first mockup, with brown lines being barriers and orange ones gates (blue lines are passenger flows). There are many problems with it though, such as how to arriving passengers leave the platform? What happens when there are multiple exits from the platform? How does it work when one doorway is available for boarding while passengers are still alighting from an adjacent one? Does it allow passengers waiting by a one doorway to move and board though the another (due to different alighting volumes, position of available seats/standing space, etc)? How much does it reduce platform capacity by? How does it cope with differently spaced train doorways? How does it cope with extended dwell times when there is time for passengers arriving on the platform to join the train? There are probably others too. Interesting, but it's a case of . . . |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 24, 2017 9:24:23 GMT
Yep, but that's what you get for about 20 minutes thinking!
Hopefully it will spur thinking in others.
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cso
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Post by cso on Aug 24, 2017 12:43:37 GMT
There are now blue 'footprints' on the right hand side of both escalators at Marylebone - an extension of Passenger etiquette maybe? They alternate left and right at Vauxhall which is mixed messaging! |
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Post by scheduler on Aug 27, 2017 2:01:15 GMT
The solution is Platform Edge Doors.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 27, 2017 6:38:04 GMT
The solution is Platform Edge Doors. Very expensive. And you also would have the disruption of installing them on a working railway. |
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 27, 2017 8:00:28 GMT
The solution is Platform Edge Doors. Not really, people will stand where they know the doors will be rather than to the side of them! |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 27, 2017 9:26:59 GMT
Indeed, platform edge doors have several benefits, but enabling people to leave the train easily is not one of them. Try alighting from a westbound train at Canary Wharf in the evening peak for example. Most people are actually pretty good at letting others off the train first, but not all of them.
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