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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 19:25:29 GMT
What is the significant of the lights on the side of the S stock. They are the Amber/yellow lights between the doors. The lower lights seem to be related to the brakes. Any ideas? I have a picture but cannot seem to add it to the thread.
Answers welcome.
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Post by domh245 on Nov 5, 2017 19:41:00 GMT
The amber lights indicate that the doors aren't locked on that carriage. And from what I remember, the lower light illuminates if a passenger alarm has been operated in that car.
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Post by MoreToJack on Nov 5, 2017 20:31:43 GMT
At present there are three 'modes' for the lights, with a fourth due to be activated as part of the ongoing 4LM project.
Steady orange indicates that a door or doors in that car are not shut.
Steady white indicates that a PEA or PEAs in that car have been activated.
Flashing orange indicates that a door or doors in that car have had a sensitive edge activation.
Flashing white will indicate that the train has received a target point and is ready to depart (performing the same function as the 'ready to depart indicators' [RTDIs] on the Jubilee and Northern lines), once ATC is rolled out.
Additionally, cars fitted with de-icing equipment will display a steady blue light, in a slightly different position, whilst spraying de-icing fluid.
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Post by firestorm on Nov 5, 2017 20:58:16 GMT
At present there are three 'modes' for the lights, with a fourth due to be activated as part of the ongoing 4LM project. Steady orange indicates that a door or doors in that car are not shut. Steady white indicates that a PEA or PEAs in that car have been activated. Flashing orange indicates that a door or doors in that car have had a sensitive edge activation. Flashing white will indicate that the train has received a target point and is ready to depart (performing the same function as the 'ready to depart indicators' [RTDIs] on the Jubilee and Northern lines), once ATC is rolled out. Additionally, cars fitted with de-icing equipment will display a steady blue light, in a slightly different position, whilst spraying de-icing fluid. Just a slight correction there, at the moment a PEA activation is solid white as you said, however once a train has had the TCMS software updated to the latest version, a PEA activation will be a flashing white and a "ready to depart" will be solid white, once ATC is live. Couldn't tell you which trains have had the update, but the software update has started on the S7 fleet, where as the S8 update commenced back in 02/08/17. Of course, there will be trains with both lighting modes until the updates has been completed fleet wide. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 5, 2017 21:18:50 GMT
Additionally, cars fitted with de-icing equipment will display a steady blue light, in a slightly different position, whilst spraying de-icing fluid. Except while at a station and the doors are unlocked, the blue de-icing light is extinguished. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 5, 2017 21:51:20 GMT
Presumably because otherwise there would be a small pool of fluid on the ballast in the platforms!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 6, 2017 3:59:03 GMT
Presumably because otherwise there would be a small pool of fluid on the ballast in the platforms! As with D Stock, the fluid is only dispensed when the TBC is in a motoring position. |
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Post by philthetube on Nov 6, 2017 6:31:48 GMT
Presumably because otherwise there would be a small pool of fluid on the ballast in the platforms! As with D Stock, the fluid is only dispensed when the TBC is in a motoring position. I may be wrong but I was under the impression that it was related to train moving and not motoring, otherwise nothing would be dispensed between Amersham and Rickmansworth Southbound by trains operating as "sleets" at night and only on the first few hundred yards of track by service trains as once they were up to speed they coast to the next station. There have certainly not been instructions issued to drivers concerning having to motor constantly while de-icing. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 6, 2017 7:00:45 GMT
As with D Stock, the fluid is only dispensed when the TBC is in a motoring position. I may be wrong but I was under the impression that it was related to train moving and not motoring, otherwise nothing would be dispensed between Amersham and Rickmansworth Southbound by trains operating as "sleets" at night and only on the first few hundred yards of track by service trains as once they were up to speed they coast to the next station. There have certainly not been instructions issued to drivers concerning having to motor constantly while de-icing. Apologies, having re-read the S Stock Instructions: Certainly before modification to become RATs, D Stock had to be in any motoring position. |
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Post by brigham on Nov 6, 2017 8:39:56 GMT
Couldn't tell you which trains have had the update, but the software update has started on the S7 fleet, where as the S8 update commenced back in 02/08/17. Of course, there will be trains with both lighting modes until the updates has been completed fleet wide. So, for a while, a steady white light might mean 'right away'; or that someone has pulled the cord. No confusion there, then. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 6, 2017 8:54:24 GMT
So, for a while, a steady white light might mean 'right away'; or that someone has pulled the cord. No confusion there, then. Unless multiple PEAs Passenger Emergency Alarms have been operated simultaneously on 7 or 8 cars, no. A steady white light on every car would indicate ready-to- depart. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Nov 6, 2017 9:12:00 GMT
Thanks both for the clarifications; I've seen and heard a few different versions of the RTDIs but it's a while since I've looked into it, no longer working with the S stock daily.
There shouldn't be any confusion between the two versions between now and when CBTC goes live - only modified trains will be able to run on those sections, and until then the RTDI functionality is dormant under legacy signalling.
A good amount of S7 and S8 trains have now been modified for ATC; they're the ones with the additional two grey boxes above the windscreens.
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 6, 2017 9:14:21 GMT
Does this mean the SSR won't have platform based RTDI's?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 6, 2017 10:20:42 GMT
Does this mean the SSR won't have platform based RTDI's? Correct, all cars of each train will have an steady illuminated white light. |
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Post by A60stock on Nov 6, 2017 16:40:51 GMT
so this means it will be very easy for passengers to tell when the train is ready to depart?
on another note, will the current acceleration rate increase once the new signalling is active? (like on the jubilee/victoria/central lines)
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Post by t697 on Nov 6, 2017 19:31:46 GMT
so this means it will be very easy for passengers to tell when the train is ready to depart? on another note, will the current acceleration rate increase once the new signalling is active? (like on the jubilee/victoria/central lines) Yes I expect some passengers will learn the meaning of the white lights, just as they learn the meaning of the current starter signal or the platform repeater of it, and indeed some passengers learn the meaning of the platform RTDI lights on the Jubilee and Northern lines. The RTDI lights will come on about 10 seconds before timetabled departure time. On accelerating rates, there is more acceleration capability on the S stock trains in ATC modes. ATC Auto may not use all of it all the time. It may use more like the present rates in areas subject to lower adhesion. The settings are programmable and also adjustable at 'central'. |
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Post by gw43125 on Nov 12, 2017 19:07:12 GMT
As we're discussing the bodyside lights, I notice there are two "lines" of LEDs- the top usually lights up orange, is the bottom the white then?
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 12, 2017 20:19:29 GMT
As we're discussing the bodyside lights, I notice there are two "lines" of LEDs- the top usually lights up orange, is the bottom the white then? Vice versa. |
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Post by gw43125 on Nov 12, 2017 21:27:30 GMT
As we're discussing the bodyside lights, I notice there are two "lines" of LEDs- the top usually lights up orange, is the bottom the white then? Vice versa. Close enough  but thanks. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 12, 2017 22:22:14 GMT
As we're discussing the bodyside lights, I notice there are two "lines" of LEDs- the top usually lights up orange, is the bottom the white then? Vice versa.  |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 12, 2017 23:12:13 GMT
Are the (blue) de-icing lights in this cluster, or are they elsewhere?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 13, 2017 7:12:21 GMT
Are the (blue) de-icing lights in this cluster, or are they elsewhere? In the same cluster. (trying to get a pic of arrangement) |
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Post by MoreToJack on Nov 16, 2017 22:15:45 GMT
The blue light takes the place of the white light when de-icing fluid is being sprayed, in the upper quadrant. I'll try and upload a photo later on.
To revisit the white lights... I've asked around and the understanding is that white lights still behave as I originally posted even on ATC-modified trains - that is, a solid white light appears when a PEA is pulled and the flashing behaviours currently inhibited. The change won't actually take place - as originally posted - until the first ATC sections start to go live and the train is operating under CBTC. I am seeking further clarification on this (and a little annoyed I didn't think of those earlier this week when I had the opportunity to test the operation of a PEA on an ATC-modified train!).
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Post by t697 on Nov 18, 2017 10:48:30 GMT
The change to make the PEA actuated indication flash is not ATC area dependent, it's just not there until the relevant train software is installed. Just need to wait a bit...!
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Post by firestorm on Nov 21, 2017 0:34:57 GMT
Pictures showing the de-icer mode and PEA lights, as you would expect, if a train is de-icing and a PEA is set off, the white light overrides the blue.   I'm curious to see what actually happens on an ATC-modded train in regards to the flashing/non-flashing PEA, hopefully will find an ATC train soon. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 21, 2017 11:32:15 GMT
It occurs to me that blue and yellow are mutually exclusive; Blue is extinguished when the doors are unlocked and yellow illuminates. If a PEA is activated on a train spraying fluid and in motion, does the white illuminate (and blue extinguish)? Or does that only happen once the train has stopped? It seems odd that the two colours that could illuminate together are in the same cluster and require some switching and the two colours that are mutually exclusive are in separate clusters?
Or am I just wittering?
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Post by t697 on Nov 21, 2017 21:59:09 GMT
A fair bit of work has gone into deciding the precedence of the various indications. There's not really an issue with the blue and white. The blue indication is only significant to anyone between stations and the white (flashing or steady) at stations.
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Post by gw43125 on Dec 19, 2017 20:48:28 GMT
I know this is going to sound unbelievably sad but are the white/blue indications colour changing LEDs or two types arranged alternately?
Also is every unit deicer fitted or only select units?
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Post by firestorm on Dec 19, 2017 21:25:02 GMT
I know this is going to sound unbelievably sad but are the white/blue indications colour changing LEDs or two types arranged alternately? Also is every unit deicer fitted or only select units? Wouldn't be able to tell you, would need to be quite close to the lights to check and that brings another problem of staring into bright LED's, I'll have a look if I get a chance. Deicer trains on units 21002 to 21056 (S8), 21302 to 21382 (S7). |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Dec 20, 2017 16:07:02 GMT
I know this is going to sound unbelievably sad but are the white/blue indications colour changing LEDs or two types arranged alternately? Also is every unit deicer fitted or only select units? It would be quite unusual to get blue/white colour changing LED's as blue can be produced naturally but white is either a mixed or fluorescent effect. (And although mixing is technically possible, it would yield a blue light much dimmer than the white.) All 'colour changing' LED's are actually multiple LED's in the same package - the required colours being energised as required, so there is no logical difference between, say, a red/green colour changer and having two separate components, although the former is often neater in various ways. (i.e. wiring/mounting/more even coverage.) |
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but thanks.
