Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 20, 2018 10:21:45 GMT
According to the status update on the TfL Website, due to engineering works there is no service between Baker Street and Hammersmith and High Street Kensington.
The District is shown as simply part closed between High Street Kensington and Edgware Road, and the H&C part closed west of Baker Street. The interesting thing though is that the Circle is advertised as running two services - Baker Street to High Street Kensington via Aldgate (as would be expected) and also High Street Kensington to Barking via Victoria. This isn't a service I recall being operated before, and having some circle line trains not turning left at Tower Hill seems an odd choice.
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Post by superteacher on Jan 20, 2018 10:43:28 GMT
According to the status update on the TfL Website, due to engineering works there is no service between Baker Street and Hammersmith and High Street Kensington. The District is shown as simply part closed between High Street Kensington and Edgware Road, and the H&C part closed west of Baker Street. The interesting thing though is that the Circle is advertised as running two services - Baker Street to High Street Kensington via Aldgate (as would be expected) and also High Street Kensington to Barking via Victoria. This isn't a service I recall being operated before, and having some circle line trains not turning left at Tower Hill seems an odd choice. I know that previously, an Edgware Road to Upminster via Victoria has been operated with Circle / H&C drivers from Edgware Road to South Ken, then District Line drivers to Upminster. This was during Christmas holiday engineering works in 2016. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 20, 2018 11:38:59 GMT
This same Timetable Notice has operated on: 30/9-1/10, 2-3/12/2017 and will also be used 17-18/2, 10-11/3 2018.
High Street Kensington-Baker Street every 20min
High Street Kensington-Barking every 20min (trains actually labelled as ‘District Line’ as only code available)
Baker Street-Barking every 20min
Olympia service only 0900-2100
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Post by wimblephil on Jan 20, 2018 13:30:40 GMT
Seems odd to advertise it as Circle service when it’s wholly a District route save one little stretch before High Street Ken. Especially if the trains themselves are labelled as District line. Seems confusing! Is there any reason for that?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 20, 2018 15:13:35 GMT
Seems odd to advertise it as Circle service when it’s wholly a District route save one little stretch before High Street Ken. Especially if the trains themselves are labelled as District line. Seems confusing! Is there any reason for that? They are H&C/Circle drivers, train numbers etc. Unfortunately the only code that can be inputted by the driver is one to Barking via Victoria, starting from Edgware Road. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 20, 2018 15:27:36 GMT
What are they coded in the other direction? Displaying Edgware Road when they are outside going to HSK would be a bit confusing.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 20, 2018 15:57:36 GMT
What are they coded in the other direction? Displaying Edgware Road when they are outside going to HSK would be a bit confusing. Code 634 High Street Kensington (Circle) from Hammersmith. Starting from Baker Street would be the same code. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 20, 2018 15:58:06 GMT
Thought the main benefit of electronic displays was supposed to be the ability to do custom stuff as necessary? I know theres a vast list of choices now, larger than available on blinds, but still seems to be missing a trick not to allow 'anywhere via anywhere' type programming.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 20, 2018 16:37:45 GMT
Thought the main benefit of electronic displays was supposed to be the ability to do custom stuff as necessary? Indeed, refurbished D Stock could allow any District station (except Notting Hill-Edgware Rd) to be displayed on the front/sides. Refurbished C Stock DVA was similarly flexible, although the destination blinds were limited. |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
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Post by Ben on Jan 20, 2018 19:38:23 GMT
Is that right? Wasn't aware of that on the D stock. Why on earth then was such a facility not scoped in the S stock, the unified go anywhere inter-operable stock for the whole SSR!
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jan 20, 2018 20:24:36 GMT
Seems odd to advertise it as Circle service when it’s wholly a District route save one little stretch before High Street Ken. Especially if the trains themselves are labelled as District line. Seems confusing! Is there any reason for that? You could argue that the only true Circle Line services are the ones that traverse High Street Kensington to Gloucester Road, Liverpool Street to Aldgate and Tower Hill to Aldgate. All the other routes are covered by District of H/C services. But then again, what do I know, I'm just an angler!  |
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Post by scheduler on Feb 2, 2018 22:56:33 GMT
It's a numbers game. In theory the south side of the circle should have a normal service. But the District numbers are set up to have a Circle through the southside every 10 mins. But we can't turn a 10 minute service at Baker Street, they tried it once - and it didn't work apparently. Probably the complex shunt move and only 1 platform useable is the issue. So the solution is to keep the District southside of circle timetable the same and the east end the same and run the circle and H&C via the southside to make up the every 10 minutes. Then all you have to do is even the Met's out between Baker Street and Aldgate to fill in the gaps left by a missing H&C service. High Street Kensington is going to be very busy with all 4 platforms reversing trains. But on the other hand the layout allows District to use platforms 3 and 4 as a terminus with crossovers available from both lines in and out. The same is true of platforms 1 and 2 for circles. So it is an eloquent solution that requires the minimum of alterations to the service on the branches of both Met and District.
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Post by superteacher on Feb 3, 2018 0:23:06 GMT
Surely it’s possible to reverse a 10 minute service in the platform at Baker Street. For years and years the H&C used to reverse 8tph in the single bay platform at Barking. It just requires a prompt turnaround.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 3, 2018 1:24:01 GMT
Surely it’s possible to reverse a 10 minute service in the platform at Baker Street. For years and years the H&C used to reverse 8tph in the single bay platform at Barking. It just requires a prompt turnaround. It also needs signalling and track layouts that support that level of intensity. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 1:39:23 GMT
Surely it’s possible to reverse a 10 minute service in the platform at Baker Street. For years and years the H&C used to reverse 8tph in the single bay platform at Barking. It just requires a prompt turnaround. It also needs signalling and track layouts that support that level of intensity. And the other problem is that Baker Street is a busy station in Central London where trains don't normally terminate, whereas the trains using the bay at Barking were doing what they always did and what the map tells people they'll do a little bit further out. Not that Barking isn't busy, but I bet you got much fewer tourists asking if this train goes to Paddington at Barking on an average day  |
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Post by scheduler on Feb 5, 2018 22:14:16 GMT
Surely it’s possible to reverse a 10 minute service in the platform at Baker Street. For years and years the H&C used to reverse 8tph in the single bay platform at Barking. It just requires a prompt turnaround. If it were, we'd be doing it! A bay platform is designed for reversing. A single through running platform with a shunt move is not, they are entirely different. Shunts, as at Baker Street, involve moves that interfere with one another. Bay platform reverses, as at Tower Hill or Barking do not. |
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Post by superteacher on Feb 5, 2018 22:30:29 GMT
Surely it’s possible to reverse a 10 minute service in the platform at Baker Street. For years and years the H&C used to reverse 8tph in the single bay platform at Barking. It just requires a prompt turnaround. If it were, we'd be doing it! A bay platform is designed for reversing. A single through running platform with a shunt move is not, they are entirely different. Shunts, as at Baker Street, involve moves that interfere with one another. Bay platform reverses, as at Tower Hill or Barking do not. They have reversed 12 tph at South Ken before via the trailling crossover (with stepping back). |
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 5, 2018 23:33:57 GMT
Surely it’s possible to reverse a 10 minute service in the platform at Baker Street. For years and years the H&C used to reverse 8tph in the single bay platform at Barking. It just requires a prompt turnaround. If it were, we'd be doing it! A bay platform is designed for reversing. A single through running platform with a shunt move is not, they are entirely different. Shunts, as at Baker Street, involve moves that interfere with one another. Bay platform reverses, as at Tower Hill or Barking do not. Something doesn't add up here. Reversing off the platform at Baker Street doesn't require any shunt moves; straight into platform 6 on the west, stop at MB28 and shut down. After changing ends, wrong-road starter MB18 allows the train to return east via 32 points. A reversal is also possible via platform 2, using wrong-road starter MB15 and again reversing east via 32 points (although this of course impinges onto the Met service). Neither of these moves "interfere with each other", certainly no more so than normal junction working through Baker Street (excluding the fact that you wouldn't want a train sat in 2 for long). It *is* possible to reverse a 10 minute service at Baker Street... and that's exactly what's being done. Every 20 minutes High Street-Baker and every 20 minutes Barking-Baker, which combine to form... yeah, you guessed it. A 10 minute headway between Liverpool Street-Baker. It should be noted that a similar service level is provided when reversals at King's Cross happen via both east to west via the scissors crossover or shunting west to east and over just one part of the scissors. I believe the layout is, in fact, capable of offering more than this. "Bay platform reverses...do not [interfere with one another]" is equally a statement that doesn't add up. Whilst it is true that the two examples given are separate from each line, that isn't universally the case, so that makes this sweeping statement rather difficult to correlate with reality. Using just the SSR to keep things simple, the bays at Plaistow and Dagenham East both cause conflicting moves. Numerous other terminal stations and bay platforms do also give conflicting moves for many routes, often worse than those that allegedly exist within your statements. I present Praed Street Junction as exhibit A. Chris M has already hit the nail on the head however with the following comment: It also needs signalling and track layouts that support that level of intensity. Certainly 6tph can be put round via Baker 6 quite easily when no through running is taken place. More is in theory possible with stepping back, although it certainly couldn't handle the full 12tph. High Street Kensington is going to be very busy with all 4 platforms reversing trains. But on the other hand the layout allows District to use platforms 3 and 4 as a terminus with crossovers available from both lines in and out. The same is true of platforms 1 and 2 for circles. So it is an eloquent solution that requires the minimum of alterations to the service on the branches of both Met and District. It is not possible to reverse Outer Rail to Inner Rail at High Street via platform 1, only via platform 2. When posting please at least make some attempt to be factually accurate. 🙄 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 23:42:12 GMT
Try ED14 shunt signal over 13’s Reverse
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 5, 2018 23:52:58 GMT
Try ED14 shunt signal over 13’s Reverse That would allow you to reverse Inner Rail to Outer Rail after de-training in platform 1 and doing the mainline shunt to platform 2; it wouldn't allow Outer Rail to Inner Rail as no crossovers are provided. It's also not possible to double shunt from platform 2 to platform 1 via 13s (and there'd be no point anyway!). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 2:08:05 GMT
look I always have got my inner and outer mixed up why can't it be just east and west bound thats easier
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