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Post by spsmiler on Apr 7, 2020 23:15:42 GMT
Has the virus emergency situation delayed / stopped the roll-out of the new trains?
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Post by cudsn15 on Apr 8, 2020 19:24:58 GMT
I live right by 7 sisters station and can see the trains - I'm seeing more and more 710's over the past couple of weeks or so...
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 8, 2020 20:32:15 GMT
It’s been slowed down significantly but is still happening; other pair entered traffic last week which I think brings us to four pairs. With the reduced services running its entirely believable that, driver training permitting, the whole service could be run with 710s before too long. I haven’t seen any 317s (on my commute to/from my essential job) for nearly a month now.
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Post by nopixar on Apr 8, 2020 20:46:08 GMT
It’s been slowed down significantly but is still happening; other pair entered traffic last week which I think brings us to four pairs. With the reduced services running its entirely believable that, driver training permitting, the whole service could be run with 710s before too long. I haven’t seen any 317s (on my commute to/from my essential job) for nearly a month now. Kind of. Driver training has stopped so there is a limit to the amount of trains you can put out in service. One unit crosses about 5-6 driver jobs per day. So unfortunately even the ones that have been accepted have not been used much. Usually only one or two out on a reduced timetable out of 7 unit diagrams...Only about a third of the drivers sign them so until training restarts you won’t be seeing anything like a full fleet for a while yet. That being said what they seem to be doing is rotating new deliveries to give them a run out in-service. So when the numbers of drivers start to increase units can be introduced immediately. Smart move. |
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Post by kieran844 on Apr 21, 2020 17:57:18 GMT
Is there an estimated date for when 710s will start running on the Stratford - Richmond/Clapham Junction line?
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 21, 2020 20:38:41 GMT
Is there an estimated date for when 710s will start running on the Stratford - Richmond/Clapham Junction line? Hmm, will these even be needed now? |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 22, 2020 18:10:10 GMT
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Post by latecomer on Apr 22, 2020 20:35:07 GMT
Is there an estimated date for when 710s will start running on the Stratford - Richmond/Clapham Junction line? I don't have a date, but the new chevron stop boards were fitted at many stations on the NLL on Sunday and into Monday this week. Some are marked '378/710 S'. Until substantially more NLL drivers are trained up it would be problematic to introduce them without a dedicated set of driver diagrams just for the 710's, so I don't see it happening for a while. |
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Post by dazz285 on Apr 22, 2020 21:31:08 GMT
710276 was at Willesden TMD the other day. First 5 car 710 I've seen in the flesh.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 23, 2020 20:03:52 GMT
710276 was at Willesden TMD the other day. First 5 car 710 I've seen in the flesh. Now all they need are some passengers.... |
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 23, 2020 20:14:38 GMT
When the first Class 345 train arrived in London it had some repurposed passenger carriages known as something like 'brake force runners' and if I understand correctly their purpose was to help with braking. The report for this "ooops" did not mention such carriages, so in effect this was an unfitted goods train. |
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Post by phil on Apr 24, 2020 1:17:05 GMT
When the first Class 345 train arrived in London it had some repurposed passenger carriages known as something like 'brake force runners' and if I understand correctly their purpose was to help with braking. The report for this "ooops" did not mention such carriages, so in effect this was an unfitted goods train. Not quite. As the report noted, the rearmost loco and the front one were connected by an air pipe - if the train became divided at any stage then the brakes would automatically apply. That is NOT an unfitted train by any stretch of the imagination. An unfitted train has no brake pipe at all and if it became divided it relies on the Guard and driver noticing then applying the brake manually. What is correct is that the amount of brake force available was limited in the Loughborough incident due to only the locos having brakes. It should be noted solo locomotives are speed restricted for this reason (and the old HST sets could not exceed more than 100mph unless there were 5 or more coaches in the formation) as the more wagons / coaches in the formation, the grater the brake force available. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 28, 2020 13:17:17 GMT
Not seen any 710 on the DC line for a while. I assume this is due to driver availability for those signed on the newer trains?
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Post by dazz285 on Apr 28, 2020 14:00:12 GMT
Not seen any 710 on the DC line for a while. I assume this is due to driver availability for those signed on the newer trains? 5 car 378 holds more people that's all..as we were running 2 trains an hour which I believe has now been upped to 3 trains an hour. |
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Post by t697 on Apr 28, 2020 16:03:43 GMT
Not seen any 710 on the DC line for a while. I assume this is due to driver availability for those signed on the newer trains? 5 car 378 holds more people that's all..as we were running 2 trains an hour which I believe has now been upped to 3 trains an hour. So the plan is to replace the 378s on this route with smaller capacity trains. Can anyone remind me why that's a good idea or what's the plan for the 378s? |
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Post by nopixar on Apr 28, 2020 16:14:45 GMT
5 car 378 holds more people that's all..as we were running 2 trains an hour which I believe has now been upped to 3 trains an hour. So the plan is to replace the 378s on this route with smaller capacity trains. Can anyone remind me why that's a good idea or what's the plan for the 378s? To move them onto the other lines where they are needed even more where passenger numbers continually outgrow the infrastructure and service in place... The Watford to Euston lines will not fall to pieces running 710s..sounds like a great idea to me. |
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Post by t697 on Apr 28, 2020 16:17:41 GMT
Fair enough. LO or another operator altogether?
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Post by nopixar on Apr 28, 2020 16:32:19 GMT
Fair enough. LO or another operator altogether? Staying at LO they will bolster the services in the south. LO As a whole has always been a victim of its own success. If you look back to services from Silverlink days (three-car) sometimes one train per hour on the North London lines for example I don’t think anybody could imagine the amount of passenger numbers that we see these days. Of course there have been some outside factors like linking Westfields Stratford, The influx of people into areas like Hackney...linking south and north through the old East London line... more jobs being available outside the city centre etc etc. But we are forever playing catch up with spiralling passengers usage. So sometimes a small capacity decrease on a not so saturated part of the line might yield a massive capacity boost on a another part like the ELL for example. I can see a lot more of this shuffling around in the years to come as different parts of the LO network become more and more busy with no infrastructure modifications. It’s already pretty much at its limits already. |
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Post by xplaistow on Apr 28, 2020 17:32:14 GMT
Technically, the Watford line is actually seeing a net capacity increase (current situation notwithstanding) as the shorter trains are mitigated by the recent increase from 3 trains per hour to 4.
Before: 5-car x 3tph = 15 cars per hour.
After: 4/5-car x 4tph = 16+ cars per hour.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 28, 2020 19:24:23 GMT
Technically, the Watford line is actually seeing a net capacity increase (current situation notwithstanding) as the shorter trains are mitigated by the recent increase from 3 trains per hour to 4. Before: 5-car x 3tph = 15 cars per hour. After: 4/5-car x 4tph = 16+ cars per hour. How does this work out at seats per hour? |
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 28, 2020 19:40:11 GMT
Technically, the Watford line is actually seeing a net capacity increase (current situation notwithstanding) as the shorter trains are mitigated by the recent increase from 3 trains per hour to 4. Before: 5-car x 3tph = 15 cars per hour. After: 4/5-car x 4tph = 16+ cars per hour. How does this work out at seats per hour? I am not sure about seating capacity but re: overall capacity it depends on how many human sardines one be fitted into long thin tin can. I think regular users are most displeased as at rush hours the trains become 'somewhat crowded' and therefore the nominal extra carriage per hour is seen as being of minimal benefit. |
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Post by Chris L on Apr 28, 2020 20:47:00 GMT
Technically, the Watford line is actually seeing a net capacity increase (current situation notwithstanding) as the shorter trains are mitigated by the recent increase from 3 trains per hour to 4. Before: 5-car x 3tph = 15 cars per hour. After: 4/5-car x 4tph = 16+ cars per hour. How does this work out at seats per hour? The fact that the trains operating are walk through makes it easier to find space on the train. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 28, 2020 22:09:41 GMT
How does this work out at seats per hour? The fact that the trains operating are walk through makes it easier to find space on the train. Like the 710s that are to replace them, the existing trains (378s) are walk-through. |
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Post by Chris L on Apr 29, 2020 4:13:32 GMT
The fact that the trains operating are walk through makes it easier to find space on the train. Like the 710s that are to replace them, the existing trains (378s) are walk-through. I didn't say that they weren't. Whenever I've used the line in recent times the ability to walk down the train has been used by a lot of people. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 29, 2020 18:12:21 GMT
I get that the trains are walk-through and that this is generally useful.
I'm wondering what the capacity of the trains is. There might well be more cars per hour, but if they're shorter car the benefit is mitigated.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 29, 2020 19:05:05 GMT
I get that the trains are walk-through and that this is generally useful. I'm wondering what the capacity of the trains is. There might well be more cars per hour, but if they're shorter car the benefit is mitigated. If Wikipedia is to be believed, cars of both classes of unit are about 20m long (there are slight variations between driving and non-driving cars because of cabs and couplers) Platform 5's publication gives the dimensions of the 710 cars as about 22.5m, but I think this is an error - they may have copied the data across from the Class 345s, which are similar in most other respects but not in length. |
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Post by jukes on Apr 29, 2020 21:47:51 GMT
I get that the trains are walk-through and that this is generally useful. I'm wondering what the capacity of the trains is. There might well be more cars per hour, but if they're shorter car the benefit is mitigated. If Wikipedia is to be believed, cars of both classes of unit are about 20m long (there are slight variations between driving and non-driving cars because of cabs and couplers) Platform 5's publication gives the dimensions of the 710 cars as about 22.5m, but I think this is an error - they may have copied the data across from the Class 345s, which are similar in most other respects but not in length. Class 710 Data sheet at: www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/545906/response/1301326/attach/3/Class%20710%20Stock%20Information%20Sheet.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1 |
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Post by goldenarrow on Apr 29, 2020 23:38:32 GMT
rincew1nd , To answer your original question, the prior service gave the Watford DC an LO service of 2790 seats per hour. The current service with majority 710 running plus the odd 378 gives around 3020 seats per hour giving an uplift of around 320 seats an hour. Whilst it does afford some degree of flexibility with rolling stock operation, I'd say that's a pretty mediocre deal for the DC.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 30, 2020 9:45:10 GMT
The current service with majority 710 running plus the odd 378 gives around 3020 seats per hour giving an uplift of around 320 seats an hour. I'd say that's a pretty mediocre deal for the DC. Does it need any more? I understand it is not as crowded as the other Overground routes. Not so long ago the DC lines had three-car 313s, so only 9 cars per hour. And on a substantial part of the route there are also Bakerloo trains (6tph), more than doubling the service frequency. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Apr 30, 2020 11:19:25 GMT
The current service with majority 710 running plus the odd 378 gives around 3020 seats per hour giving an uplift of around 320 seats an hour. I'd say that's a pretty mediocre deal for the DC. Does it need any more? I understand it is not as crowded as the other Overground routes. Not so long ago the DC lines had three-car 313s, so only 9 cars per hour. And on a substantial part of the route there are also Bakerloo trains (6tph), more than doubling the service frequency. Probably not for the traffic solely from Euston, S.Hampstead and High Rd. I'm more concerned for the peak time diagrams that pick up displaced passengers from the Queens Park terminators and the fact that Willesden Jct isn't the backwater it once was either. |
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