Elizabeth Line (CrossRail) opened 24th May 2022

[whistlekiller2000]

I've always regarded myself as an optimist, somebody who's glass is never half empty, just half full but this situation is downright embarrassing, almost as embarrassing as the other thing John Tuthill speaks of (which incidentally, we won't be mentioning again)  It has no direct effect on me or my life living where I do but it saddens me and is symptomatic of the current trend towards giving unrealistic delivery dates as a matter of course. I just don't understand why a sensibly considered date isn't quoted in the first place, making an early finish a triumph as opposed to the opposite which has happened here. 

[goldenarrow]

Apr 18, 2019 9:44:57 GMT silenthunter said:

So opening could be delayed if the testing goes badly...

What's holding up the stations though?

We are at the point in the project where most of the work going on just like in the last few months of a house being built where the works make little or no aesthetic changes to what is already there. Connecting stations up to the permanent grid supply was a big push because this enabled the commissioning of permanent lighting, CCTV and other safety critical equipment which I'd assume needs a cycle of testing aswell. Tottenham Court Road, Farringdon and I think Custom House are all wired up to the grid. It still looks like Bond Street and Whitechapel are behind on these fronts.

[trt]

Apr 18, 2019 9:53:40 GMT whistlekiller2000 said:

I've always regarded myself as an optimist, somebody who's glass is never half empty, just half full but this situation is downright embarrassing, almost as embarrassing as the other thing John Tuthill speaks of (which incidentally, we won't be mentioning again)  It has no direct effect on me or my life living where I do but it saddens me and is symptomatic of the current trend towards giving unrealistic delivery dates as a matter of course. I just don't understand why a sensibly considered date isn't quoted in the first place, making an early finish a triumph as opposed to the opposite which has happened here. 

Nothing concentrates the mind like an impending deadline. Although one particular famous individual did have a thing to say on the subject of deadlines: he loved them; he loved the whooshing sound they made as they went past. This individual also had this to say on the subject of an artificial crisis...

LINTILLA:
Crisis Psychology: the benefits of working under extreme pressure - nothing more useless than a bored archaeologist. Come on, this tunnel leads to the work face. See this device?

ARTHUR:
Looks like a watch.

LINTILLA:
It’s a crisis inducer. Set it to ‘Mark Nine’ and… Hurry! They’re after us!

GUIDE:
The major problem which the medical profession in the most advanced sectors of the galaxy had to tackle - after cures had been found for all the major diseases, and instant repair systems had been invented for all physical injuries and disablements except some of the more advanced forms of death - was that of employment. Planets full of bronzed, healthy, clean-limbed individuals merrily prancing through their lives meant that the only doctors still in business were the psychiatrists - simply because no one had discovered a cure for the universe as a whole, or rather, the only one that did exist had been abolished by the medical doctors. Then it was noticed, that like most forms of medical treatment, total cures had a lot of unpleasant side effects. Boredom, listlessness, lack of - well anything very much, and with these conditions came the realisation that nothing turned, say, a slightly talented musician, into a towering genius faster than the problem of encroaching deafness. And nothing turned a perfectly normal, healthy individual into a great political or military leader better than irreversible brain damage. Suddenly everything changed. Previously best-selling books such as ’How I Survived an Hour With a Sprained Finger’ were swept away in a flood of titles such as ’How I Scaled the North Face of the Megaperna With a Perfectly Healthy Finger But Everything Else Sprained, Broken, or Bitten Off by a Pack of Mad Yaks’. And so doctors were back in business - recreating all the diseases and injuries they had abolished - in popular, easy-to-use forms. Thus, given the right and instantly available types of disability, even something as simple as turning on the Three-D T.V. could become a major challenge. And when all the programs on all the channels actually were made by actors with cleft-palettes, speaking lines by dyslexic writers, filmed by blind cameramen, instead of merely seeming like that, it somehow made the whole thing more worthwhile.

[futurix]

Apr 17, 2019 23:36:21 GMT superteacher said:

Another report on the delays:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47967766

Brilliant reporting - no mention whether it's the core that might open in 2021 or the entire thing. And of course the worst possible date in the headline.

[superteacher]

Apr 18, 2019 12:20:19 GMT futurix said:

Apr 17, 2019 23:36:21 GMT superteacher said:

Another report on the delays:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47967766

Brilliant reporting - no mention whether it's the core that might open in 2021 or the entire thing. And of course the worst possible date in the headline.

To be fair I don’t think anybody really has a clue.

Either way, the whole thing is still an embarrassment.

[goldenarrow]

Apr 18, 2019 12:50:36 GMT superteacher said:

Apr 18, 2019 12:20:19 GMT futurix said:

Brilliant reporting - no mention whether it's the core that might open in 2021 or the entire thing. And of course the worst possible date in the headline.

To be fair I don’t think anybody really has a clue.

Either way, the whole thing is still an embarrassment.

A good report that gets some no nonsense facts out of a source who I have on good authority is due to attend that high level meeting at 55 Broadway.

It is a shame that the incompetence and ineptitude of government departments to create a management structure that enables the political spheres to say, "look at us, we are here making a difference (despite having little or no expertise in the project they manufactured)" whilst simultaneously allowing them to jump ship and say "well, its all down to the management team (that weren't given enough space or respect to do their jobs)".

All this managerial waffle overshadowing what will still be remembered as one of the landmark civil engineering projects of London's 150+ year old history with rapid transit, to me thats the real shame.

[revupminster]

How can they be having problems with the platform barriers? Was all expertise lost when the Jubilee line was built. They have them on other railways round the world. No wonder HS2 might be cancelled. The countries engineering skills are pen pushing or putting together prefabricated Hitachi trains. Ikea and MFI have a lot to answer for.

[rincew1nd]

Apr 18, 2019 14:11:42 GMT revupminster said:

Ikea and MFI have a lot to answer for.

Didn't MFI go bust?

[revupminster]

Apr 18, 2019 15:36:36 GMT rincew1nd said:

Apr 18, 2019 14:11:42 GMT revupminster said:

Ikea and MFI have a lot to answer for.

Didn't MFI go bust?

Just like Crossrail

[snoggle]

Goodness me folks - I thought I was the arch cynic but you're all outdoing me.

A few comments

- this is not a formal report. It's an article based on gossip. It may be moderately well informed gossip but until the Crossrail Board take a decision next week we don't know for certain.

- Of course things slowed down after last August. As soon as the deadline pressure went people relaxed, others left, the management team was distracted until the sponsors took action. I'm not excusing this but it was entirely inevitable even if people on the project and elsewhere knew the work was late.

- There has been some progress in that Tier One contractors (construction) are off a number of sites. That allows M&E / Comms etc work to get underway in a more meaningful way *provided* the underlying scope and sequencing is right.

- If Crossrail have used the recent months to actually get a grip on the inherited mess (things started going badly wrong in 2016) and are clearer about the remaining programme then I'd say that was a positive. Obviously we need evidence that this is true.

- That last thing we need now (IMO) is another political driven obsessional opening date target. That won't make things happen. It will repeat what has gone before in terms of bad news not being properly communicated leading to a bigger mess later.

- Mark Wild was clear a number of months ago that there would be several instances of "doom and gloom" about the rolling stock / signalling testing and integration. Well guess what - we have doom and gloom about this BUT they are at least getting the track time to actually do testing *and* they are making progress rather than standing still or going backwards.

- I think there has been a deliberate decision not to create "hostages to fortune" in terms of announcements. Hence why there are suggestions that we may be looking at 2021. Inevitably that winds people up and polticians get stroppy because they always want to blame their opponents and have "victims" to hang on the gallows. None of that bluster gets us anywhere though.

Let's see what emerges next week. I dare say everyone will be fuming again but I'd rather see if we get some facts and also extra insight published. Hopefully we will. I still expect an opening of the core around July - September next year with the linking in phases to follow later. Obviously that is disappointing but I'd rather the thing opened properly and most importantly ran as reliably as possible. No one wants weeks or months of in service breakdowns.

[Chris L]

Apr 18, 2019 9:44:57 GMT silenthunter said:

So opening could be delayed if the testing goes badly...

What's holding up the stations though?

The sheer size of the stations and the need to integrate the new platforms and infrastructure with older parts of Tube stations. 

The platform edge screens are much bigger/taller than on the Jubilee line. They include the platform lighting and comms equipment and large train information panels over every door.

[stapler]

What happens to Sadiq Khan if it's not open by polling day 2020?

[superteacher]

Apr 18, 2019 20:39:47 GMT stapler said:

What happens to Sadiq Khan if it's not open by polling day 2020?

Very little I would imagIne. I don’t think he can be held directly responsible, and it’s questionable how much he was kept in the loop regarding the issues.

[whistlekiller2000]

Apr 18, 2019 20:39:47 GMT stapler said:

What happens to Sadiq Khan if it's not open by polling day 2020?

Apolitically speaking, like any elected official, he's open to being re-elected or not if standing again, that's about it....😎

[Chris M]

Apr 18, 2019 20:39:47 GMT stapler said:

What happens to Sadiq Khan if it's not open by polling day 2020?

If he chooses to stand again*, it is entirely up to the voters. What they think of it will depend in part on what questions he is asked (regarding this and other issues), by whom, what his response to them is, who is standing against him, what questions they are asked, by whom, and how they respond and the state of local, regional and national politics at the time.

*In the hustings prior to the last election he did indicate a desire to serve at least two terms, but he has until the close of nominations (4pm 31 March 2020) to make a final decision.

[snoggle]

Apr 19, 2019 0:11:13 GMT Chris M said:

Apr 18, 2019 20:39:47 GMT stapler said:

What happens to Sadiq Khan if it's not open by polling day 2020?

If he chooses to stand again*, it is entirely up to the voters. What they think of it will depend in part on what questions he is asked (regarding this and other issues), by whom, what his response to them is, who is standing against him, what questions they are asked, by whom, and how they respond and the state of local, regional and national politics at the time.

*In the hustings prior to the last election he did indicate a desire to serve at least two terms, but he has until the close of nominations (4pm 31 March 2020) to make a final decision.

I thought Khan had indicated towards the end of last year that he was standing for re-election. I accept there is the formal process to conclude but I can't see him being in a competition within Labour for the nomination.

On the other point I actually don't see Crossrail being politically damaging for the Mayor. He can point to an inherited mess, an inherited dysfunctional governance system that he could not unilaterally change and the fact that he's had to pick up the mess without government help. His opponents will seek to paint a very different picture but things were going wrong before he took over. He can also point to the fact that the National Audit Office (I think) recommended years ago that governance and project control be changed as the project transitioned - that was not taken forward by TfL or the DfT or Crossrail itself.

Obviously people are "annoyed" it is late but the reality is that what isn't running isn't missed. Politically it could be far more dangerous for the Mayor to push for a hurried opening with the railway not being as reliable as hoped for and people being delayed and stuck in tunnels due to breakdowns. That could form the newspaper headline backdrop to a re-election campaign and it would be inescapable as the Mayor's people and changed governance *are* now in place. People have short memories and would forget the last few years of problems and just focus on the delays. In some ways a delay to after May 2020 may work better for the Mayor - a view I hadn't previously considered as I thought he'd be impatient for a March 2020 opening.

[aslefshrugged]

Sadiq is running for Mayor in 2020, he was reselected by the London Constituency Labour Parties last year.

What will happen if Crossrail isn't open by May 2020? Not a lot, the only polling so far was by YouGov back in December last year, Khan scored 55% to Shaun Bailey's 28% in the first round and no Mayoral candidate has ever polled more than 49% in the run-up to election day.  Khan is so far ahead it is going to take something huge for him to lose, a lot bigger than Crossrail not opening on time and the Tories know that.  Bailey was selected because no one bigger wants the job after Zac Goldsmith got mullered.

Also it looks as if the GLA Transport Committee (of which Shaun Bailey is a member) have just thrown Mike Brown under the bus...

Key Findings


The report, which analysed hundreds documents and took in hours of oral evidence from guests in public meetings, has detailed a range of findings.

Amongst the findings are:

E-mails between Crossrail and Transport for London (TfL) suggest that communications to the Mayor were watered down by TfL Commissioner, Mike Brown, instead of flagging risks to the timetable early.

Significant concerns raised by the independent reviewer, as early as January 2018, were largely ignored.

The desire to achieve the completion date overpowered any professional and critical assessment of risk.


The Crossrail Executive did not have the skills required at the later stages of the project to adequately assess and understand risks as they became apparent.

www.london.gov.uk/about-us/london-assembly/london-assembly-publications/crossrail-delay-report

Full report here.

www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/final_-_london_assembly_transport_committee_crossrail_investigation_report.pdf

Mike Brown was Managing Director of London Underground when Bombardier were awarded the contract to upgrade the Sub Surface Line signalling so he has form on overseeing failed projects and he was appointed TfL Commissioner by Boris so Khan can't even be blamed for giving him the job.

Perhaps we should call him "Slippery Sadiq"...

[trt]

Well, one has to wonder if there's a 6 week critical period where the only thing stopping an opening, partial or otherwise, would be purdah for the mayoral elections.

[superteacher]

You can’t completely separate transport from politics, but this is starting to veer too far towards a political discussion. Keep it directly transport related please.

[snoggle]

Apr 23, 2019 5:53:07 GMT aslefshrugged said:

Sadiq is running for Mayor in 2020, he was reselected by the London Constituency Labour Parties last year.

What will happen if Crossrail isn't open by May 2020? Not a lot, the only polling so far was by YouGov back in December last year, Khan scored 55% to Shaun Bailey's 28% in the first round and no Mayoral candidate has ever polled more than 49% in the run-up to election day.  Khan is so far ahead it is going to take something huge for him to lose, a lot bigger than Crossrail not opening on time and the Tories know that.  Bailey was selected because no one bigger wants the job after Zac Goldsmith got mullered.

Also it looks as if the GLA Transport Committee (of which Shaun Bailey is a member) have just thrown Mike Brown under the bus...

Perhaps we should call him "Slippery Sadiq"...

Well the Transport Cttee are determined to have as many "heads on plates" as they can get. It is also the long campaign period to May 2020 so it's inevitable that opposition politicians will want as much trouble for the Mayor as is possible. Yes Crossrail is a mess and I happen to think "massaging" the comms messages to the Mayor in the way that appears to have been done is a ludicrous thing for the Commissioner to be involved in. Still he has to account for that. He will undoubtedly be attacked and attacked when he appears in front of the Transport Cttee this Thursday.

Barring Mike Brown (MB) going of his own volition or some massive unforeseen disaster happening I don't see him being kicked out this side of May 2020. However I would not rate his chances very highly of surviving beyond then regardless of who wins the Mayoralty. Sadiq will argue a new term gives him the opportunity for a fresh start. I also suspect Sadiq bears grudges for a long time so the perceived / real failings of MB will count against him when Sadiq wants his payback for TfL being in a mess / Crossrail being late. Any other politician winning will want their own team and I suspect Mike Brown will be seen politically as "damaged goods" from here on in. IMO there are several other things that count against the Mayor and MB but that's for another post.

[alpinejohn]

Whilst scoring points against opposition politicians is quite possibly in play here - in fairness to Caroline they may also be after some of the larger noses in the trough - not that it will see Crossrail open one second earlier..

This caught my eye

www.constructionenquirer.com/2019/04/23/ex-crossrail-chief-wolstenholme-wanted-more-bonus-cash/

It rather casts doubts on how the remuneration committee went about determining the right metric to decide whether to pay out bonuses. Presumably if the fallacy that everything was still going swimmingly could have been maintained to the end of the year then presumably Mr W and others may well have become "entitled" to some or all of the withheld 2018 bonus pot.

To my untrained eyes that seems to provide quite an incentive to hold off telling people the true state of affairs.

[goldenarrow]

Confirmation in print courtesy of the press office.

"Due to the complexity of the remaining work, Crossrail Ltd has identified a six-month window for delivery of the central section, with a midpoint at the end of 2020"

BBC London News this evening reporting that this amended time frame was between October 2020 and March 2021 and even then there is no guarantee of Bond Street opeining along with this.

Change of language hinting at a break through with regard to services to Reading.

"TfL Rail services between Paddington and Reading will commence in December 2019 with a frequency of 4 trains per hour in the peak. Testing of the signalling system continues to allow the new class 345 trains to be extended from Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow."

[rincew1nd]

There are details on the CrossRail website:

www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-ltd-outlines-plan-to-complete-the-elizabeth-line

I've not had chance to absorb them yet though.

[futurix]

Better than nothing.
I think it's a good sign that TfL is taking over Reading services in December.

Hilarious that once again media misses that they are talking about central section, and the rest will come later.

[AndrewPSSP]

amp.ft.com/content/ce178f0a-6a62-11e9-80c7-60ee53e6681d

The article is behind a paywall, the article is entitled "Crossrail Operator To Seek Two-Year Extension After Project Delay"

Surely this must be some sort of good news?

[futurix]

Well, if the opening is delayed by two years - it makes sense for the future operator to ask for extension of their contract by the same two years. I wouldn't say it's good (or bad) news - just business.

[silenthunter]

Isn't the future operator the current TfL Rail one i.e. MTR Crossrail?

[goldenarrow]

Apr 30, 2019 18:25:00 GMT silenthunter said:

Isn't the future operator the current TfL Rail one i.e. MTR Crossrail?

Indeed it is. The full article article talks more of MTR's recent difficulties and controversies nearer its native homeland aswell as a pretty standard response from MTR chief exec, Jacob Kam on the state of rail franchises in the UK.

[Chris M]

MTR Crossrail's current franchise/concession (I can't remember which it is) runs until 2023 with a possible two year extension to 2025. Without being able to read the article, it would seem likely they are just asking for that extension to be activated now (possibly sooner than would otherwise be the case?).

[superteacher]

Apr 30, 2019 18:59:39 GMT Chris M said:

MTR Crossrail's current franchise/concession (I can't remember which it is) runs until 2023 with a possible two year extension to 2025. Without being able to read the article, it would seem likely they are just asking for that extension to be activated now (possibly sooner than would otherwise be the case?).

The way things are going, their franchise will run out before it opens! 😂😂😂