More trains and a new station for the DLR

[Deep Level]

Dec 27, 2018 10:03:42 GMT Chris M said:

Some assembly of the new trains will be required as they will be 87 metres long and arriving by road as the DLR has no rail connections. As the new trains will be single walk-through units this assembly will be more than just joining carriages up. Exactly what it will entail though will depend on the detailed design of the trains, which (if it is even complete) is not yet public.

You've got me thinking Chris! Could it be beneficial for the DLR to have a rail connection for future train deliveries? Surely it could easily be added between Pudding Mill Lane and the curve to Bow Church? Trains could be hauled to Stratford and then picked up by the DLR pulling unit.

I feel like there's a good reason why this isn't the case though and I just need someone to point it out

[MoreToJack]

You would need some sort of transfer siding to change locomotives, as the DLR isn't built to support heavy rail vehicles (clue's in the name). Even the Sentinel shunter based at Poplar is very limited in where it can operate.

Plus, by the time you've built and commissioned the link you've spent more than it costs simply to road the units in.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2018 13:55:10 GMT Deep Level said:

Surely it could easily be added between Pudding Mill Lane and the curve to Bow Church? Trains could be hauled to Stratford and then picked up by the DLR pulling unit.

It's a very space constrained area - I recon near the Stratford International station would have been easier. But too expensive anyway.

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2018 12:23:24 GMT flippyff said:

"facilitate assembly"
Simon

But note "and both light and heavy maintenance of rolling stock" in the spec - heavy maintenance is going to require re-assembly after a strip-down (hopefully not losing any screws!)

[silenthunter]

You can bring them in through Beckton Depot...

[Chris M]

Dec 27, 2018 14:16:40 GMT MoreToJack said:

You would need some sort of transfer siding to change locomotives, as the DLR isn't built to support heavy rail vehicles (clue's in the name). Even the Sentinel shunter based at Poplar is very limited in where it can operate.

Plus, by the time you've built and commissioned the link you've spent more than it costs simply to road the units in.

There nay also be loading gauge issues as the DLR stock has a squarer profile than mainline trains do. The current collection shoes would certainly need to be removed before travelling on the main line.

[flippyff]

Mods, I think this post needs to be tagged onto districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/30108/more-trains-new-station-dlr

<<superteacher: Done.>>

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ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:257207-2019:TEXT:EN:HTML

<SNIP>

Communication

The procurement documents are available for unrestricted and full direct access, free of charge, at: lucpd.bravosolution.co.uk/web/login.html

Additional information can be obtained from the abovementioned address

Tenders or requests to participate must be submitted electronically via: lucpd.bravosolution.co.uk/web/login.html

Tenders or requests to participate must be submitted to the abovementioned address

<SNIP>

Short description:

The works include creating 3 new stabling sidings and require 7 new switches and crossings units. These are to be completed before the Northern Sidings Project works commence.

The scope encompasses the following disciplines; civils, communications systems, signaling, permanent way/track alignment, traction services, electrical services and depot equipment and mechanical services. The contract will be let on a build only basis as detailed design will be completed separately and prior the commencement of this project works.

<SNIP>

Description of the procurement:

Docklands Light Railway (DLR) is procuring 33 new fixed formation trains as part of its Rolling Stock Replacement Programme (RSRP) to replace the life expired B90/92 fleet and 10 new fixed formation trains. The new trains are needed to meet the service requirements for future growth and development in the Royal Docks area. In order to facilitate these new trains, the maintenance and stabling capacity of the Beckton Depot (located in London) will need to be upgraded.

DLR is seeking a contractor to undertake the following packages of work:

— Stage 1: remediate and Level Ground within shown boundary to enable stabling roads to be built,

— Stage 2: installation, test and commissioning of additional stabling roads with associated platform access,

— Stage 3: all applicable services to enable use of the additional stabling roads,

— Stage 4: test track capability to be installed on new road, which will include track layout enabling of existing roads,

— Stage 5: installation of a section of training track to be used for pathway courses, as well as safe access/egress,

— optional Stage 6: sectional completion of 1 No stabling road to allow for dependant works in the Northern Sidings to be started without impact on the operation of the depot.

Further information can be found in the SQ Pack made available with the Contract Notice.


Award criteria

Criteria below

Quality criterion - Name: Technical / Weighting: 60

Quality criterion - Name: Commercial / Weighting: 40

Cost criterion - Name: Most economically advantageous tender / Weighting: 100


Estimated value

Value excluding VAT: 6 000 000.00 GBP

<SNIP>

Time limit for receipt of tenders or requests to participate

Date: 12/06/2019

Local time: 12:00

Estimated date of dispatch of invitations to tender or to participate to selected candidates

Date: 06/08/2019

<SNIP>

Date of dispatch of this notice:

30/05/2019

HTIOI

Simon

[Chris M]

It has been announced today that Spanish firm CAF have won the contract to build the new trains for the DLR - www.railpro.co.uk/news/caf-wins-driverless-trains-contract (includes some renders)

The trains will be 5 cars long and fully walk-through (in the same way an S stock train is 7 or 8 cars). Each train will be approximately the same length as the a current 3-car train. They will be based on CAF's "Metro" train design www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-metros.php

The first trains are expected to be in service in 2023.

[silenthunter]

How conventional looking... Wonder if these will be called the B23s?

[Chris L]

It seems they will be manufactured in Wales.

[Chris M]

Jun 12, 2019 10:50:14 GMT silenthunter said:

Wonder if these will be called the B23s?

They will be maintained at Beckton so the B prefix is assured, the 23 seems probable but it might of course slip to 24 if there is a significant holdup during the build phase.

[Ben]

Looking forward to some mock ups appearing.

[christopher125]

Jun 12, 2019 11:28:22 GMT Chris L said:

It seems they will be manufactured in Wales.

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

[Chris M]

Jun 12, 2019 12:54:45 GMT christopher125 said:

Jun 12, 2019 11:28:22 GMT Chris L said:

It seems they will be manufactured in Wales.

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

CAF don't mention it in their press release. They will be building the fleet for the Wales and Borders franchise in Newport, some to be in service by 2022 and others built in 2024, which suggests there will be space for the DLR trains in 2023.
The DLR trains though are mentioned in the "future bids" section of this presentation on the CAF website from December 2018.

So I'd have to say it's very likely but not confirmed.

[rincew1nd]

TfL have released some details of the interior spec' in this tweet:

[silenthunter]

Glad to see the front seats are remaining.

[goldenarrow]

Jun 12, 2019 13:55:44 GMT Chris M said:

Jun 12, 2019 12:54:45 GMT christopher125 said:

Has that been confirmed anywhere?

CAF don't mention it in their press release. They will be building the fleet for the Wales and Borders franchise in Newport, some to be in service by 2022 and others built in 2024, which suggests there will be space for the DLR trains in 2023.
The DLR trains though are mentioned in the "future bids" section of this presentation on the CAF website from December 2018.

So I'd have to say it's very likely but not confirmed.

Addressed by the DLR Twitter account.

[AndrewPSSP]

Jun 12, 2019 17:28:31 GMT rincew1nd said:

TfL have released some details of the interior spec' in this tweet:

Jun 12, 2019 19:02:05 GMT silenthunter said:

Glad to see the front seats are remaining.

I would hope they lower the windows, or raise the seats. I can't see a seated mini-driver being able to see in front with those high windows.

[MoreToJack]

Posts relating to the 'B' prefix have been split to a new thread: districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/30697/

[rincew1nd]

Jun 13, 2019 11:34:25 GMT AndrewPSSP said:

I would hope they lower the windows, or raise the seats. I can't see a seated mini-driver being able to see in front with those high windows.

I read on the internet (so it must be true) that the front seats will be on springs and thus height adjustable. In an emergency they will also function as ejector seats to mitigate against collision injuries to those in the front seats.

[A60stock]

Article states replacement of the b90 and b92s, what about the b2k? How much more life have these got left in them?

Additionally, where exactly is the new station going to be?

[Dstock7080]

Jun 14, 2019 16:15:09 GMT A60stock said:

Additionally, where exactly is the new station going to be?

As mentioned in the article on page one of this thread:

The station at Thames Wharf would sit roughly half-way between Canning Town and West Silvertown, in an area which is currently light industrial and brown-field sites, but has been earmarked for housing for at least 4,500 new homes.

[Chris M]

Jun 14, 2019 16:15:09 GMT A60stock said:

Article states replacement of the b90 and b92s, what about the b2k? How much more life have these got left in them?

Well in theory 8-10 years more than the B90s and B92s, possibly a little more in practice as a few things required by the RVAR* were built in from the start rather than being retrofitted. However I think it more likely that they are being replaced as well as otherwise there would be three concurrent fleets (the B90/B92/B2K are essential three builds of the same stock) that would presumably not be interoperable (the B07s are never worked with the older trains, and the new trains will be too long to operate in multiple with anything else even if they are compatible). Also if you look at the numbers, 33 of the new trains will replace the existing trains. There are 70 B90/B92 stock trains, which is 23⅓ three-car trains - you will need some spare, but 10 is an awful lot. However if you add in the 24 B2K stock cars you get 31⅓ three-car trains - 33 replacing 31 with 2 spare seems much more likely.


*Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations

[Chris L]

The 10 extra trains are to improve services - the Woolwich line has masses of housing development along the line.

Beckton will also get more trains.

[Chris M]

The 10 extra trains are in addition to the 33 discussed in my previous post - the total order is for 43 trains.

[spsmiler]

Jun 12, 2019 17:28:31 GMT rincew1nd said:

TfL have released some details of the interior spec' in this tweet:

That photo has to be some sort of computer generated image which was never completed properly. The roof line is not level and the front looks distorted. I have seen a different image elsewhere which looks much better.

I am surprised that the new trains will only have five cars and still be the same length as three present-day trainsets coupled together. i wonder what the individual car lengths will be and whether the trains will be articulated with Jacobs bogies or each car will have two bogies. 

[goldenarrow]

spsmiler , Well you say that. But I’m convinced that the image you are referring to has been nicked from a shot of the Northbound London Overground Platform at Canada Water.

Have a look at that platform canopy and tell me what you think. Not only that, it is technically running wrong line.

[simran1966]

Never mind the canopy, if you zoom in on the left, the platform sign shows the current station as Canada Water, with next stations Rotherhithe, Wapping, etc. 😁

...and they've not used New Johnston for 'West India Quay'

[spsmiler]

Jun 15, 2019 15:07:49 GMT goldenarrow said:

spsmiler , Well you say that. But I’m convinced that the image you are referring to has been nicked from a shot of the Northbound London Overground Platform at Canada Water.

Have a look at that platform canopy and tell me what you think. Not only that, it is technically running wrong line.

I looked at the image fullsize, opened an Underground map, and gasped with disbelief!

Its really bizarre, even madness, but whilst I cannot quite read the information the station layout and word formation is indeed correct for northbound London Overground trains at Canada Water - which is a fully underground station!

For a DLR train to appear to be running 'wrong line' my thought turns to Canning Town station (former North London Line platforms) where there is indeed another track on the right (Jubilee Line). 

As for DLR trains having cross-platform interchange with other railways, Greenwich comes to mind, but the direction of travel is wrong for that.

It could be Custom House as trains travelling towards Canning Town (etc.,) will also have another track on the other side. But alas*, this will not be a 'cross platform interchange' station - and had it been then it would not have fitted this image.

Maybe that image was created by someone who likes the off topic / on diversion / Fantasy Railway Ideas, Proposals and Suggestions boards?

Then again, if it was prepared in a 'drive on the right' country it would also explain much! Not the London Overground platform information, however.


(* a different topic but, in my view Custom House should have been rebuilt as a cross platform interchange station with Elizabeth line trains, and this will be realised when hordes of interchanging passengers block stairways and station passageways)

[Chris M]

This is getting off topic, but the DLR is fully bi-directional so trains running on the right is possible (almost?) anywhere. For example a couple of days ago there was a failed train at Elverson Road so trains from Bank were terminating in the bay road (platform 3) at Mudchute, and there was a shuttle service from there to Greenwich - with trains arriving and departing using both through roads as single lines afaict (I arrived at Muchdhute just as normal working resumed) and then there was another shuttle service from Greenwich to Lewisham, which would necessarily involve both trains using one line at Elverson Road to bypass the failed train.

Rebuilding of Custom House is something for RIPAS I feel.