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Post by silenthunter on Nov 24, 2018 20:44:10 GMT
Why is the disused Widened Lines track area not fenced off? I'd be worried someone might accidentally fall down there.
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 24, 2018 23:58:49 GMT
The former Moorgate lines have not been filled in as they are due to be repurposed by London Underground for additional stabling capacity since pre-existing sites such as Farringdon, Edgware Road and the Triangle (to name a few) have been rationalised or abolished altogether since the introduction of the S stock.
The Moorgate line tunnels east of Barbican that pass beneath the Smithfield cattle market are currently under the stewardship of the Crossrail project being utilised for the various shafts required for the new station and as material stores something that has proven invaluable given the constraints of surface space not already taken up by construction works.
It has been years since I was told this but I believe the figure I was given was 10 trains would be able to stable at City Sidings (sometimes referred to as Farringdon City Sidings). Similar to the Jubilee lines use of Charing X, City Sidings would have the benefit of being a substantial and centrally located refuge during disruption which will no doubt make service recovery alot easier.
The junction for the sidings along with catch points has already been installed diverging to the east of Farringdon as seen in the post below. For obvious reasons, the sidings won’t be available until after Crossrail have handed over the site by which time 4LM should have dispensed with conventional signalling in this area hence why signal X225 has been fitted with a non-standard arrow plate more commonly attributed to shunt signals.
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Post by dmncf on Nov 25, 2018 8:59:25 GMT
Will it be possible for passengers to walk from Barbican Station to Crossrail's Farringdon Station, without leaving the stations? I can't remember whether this is, or ever was, part of Crossrail's proposals.
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 25, 2018 9:49:45 GMT
Will it be possible for passengers to walk from Barbican Station to Crossrail's Farringdon Station, without leaving the stations? I can't remember whether this is, or ever was, part of Crossrail's proposals. Yes, you would be able to via the lift that will link the WB platform at Barbican with level -3 in the Elizabeth line station. |
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Post by silenthunter on Nov 25, 2018 11:32:48 GMT
I wasn't talking about them being filled in, more fenced off from passengers.
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 25, 2018 15:10:35 GMT
I wasn't talking about them being filled in, more fenced off from passengers. Pretty much the same reason, only reason why blue hoardings were put up around the foot print of the former signal cabin was because a shaft was being dug a few meters away from the track resulting in an extremely tight clearance. Platforms would in likelihood only be partitioned after the track has been reinstated, other than that, there’s little incentive to seal the area off given that there is no live infrastructure active at present. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 17:21:44 GMT
Will it be possible for passengers to walk from Barbican Station to Crossrail's Farringdon Station, without leaving the stations? I can't remember whether this is, or ever was, part of Crossrail's proposals. Yes, you would be able to via the lift that will link the WB platform at Barbican with level -3 in the Elizabeth line station. Only westbound? So eastbound platform will remain as is? |
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 25, 2018 18:13:33 GMT
Yes, you would be able to via the lift that will link the WB platform at Barbican with level -3 in the Elizabeth line station. Only westbound? So eastbound platform will remain as is? As it stands, yes. I'm assuming the complications of having a building on Charterhouse Square partially overhanging the EB platform would have complicated a link there. |
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Post by superteacher on Nov 25, 2018 20:03:05 GMT
Why is the disused Widened Lines track area not fenced off? I'd be worried someone might accidentally fall down there. No more risk now compared to when trains actually ran through there! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 20:08:08 GMT
Only westbound? So eastbound platform will remain as is? As it stands, yes. I'm assuming the complications of having a building on Charterhouse Square partially overhanging the EB platform would have complicated a link there. Not surprising but still disappointing. It would be rather sad not to have Crossrail providing accessible routes to the entirety of all connecting stations. |
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Post by silenthunter on Nov 25, 2018 21:00:29 GMT
Why is the disused Widened Lines track area not fenced off? I'd be worried someone might accidentally fall down there. No more risk now compared to when trains actually ran through there! The ex-BR 'Down'/District Line westbound platforms on the eastern end of the District Line have long had a fence or full blown hoardings separating them from the LTS tracks. Those trains may go a good deal faster, but still, it's a bit of a drop. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 25, 2018 21:01:24 GMT
No more risk now compared to when trains actually ran through there! Certainly less risk of being hit by a train! But fencing it off to prevent a fall is much easier now. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 25, 2018 21:07:38 GMT
It would be rather sad not to have Crossrail providing accessible routes to the entirety of all connecting stations. There will be an accessible route between crossrail and circle platforms at Farringdon - what extra benefit would there be in providing access to Barbican's platforms as well? |
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Post by Chris M on Nov 25, 2018 22:00:55 GMT
It would be rather sad not to have Crossrail providing accessible routes to the entirety of all connecting stations. There will be an accessible route between crossrail and circle platforms at Farringdon - what extra benefit would there be in providing access to Barbican's platforms as well? I could see the benefit if there was step-free access route from the eastbound platform at Barbican to the street that would be less walking than from Farringdon (this is the sort of thing I have to consider these days, and I'm getting more mobile than I was). However there isn't one and I'm not aware of any plans for one (and it wouldn't be easy) I would hope that passive provision for a link has been provided by Crossrail but beyond that it isn't really something worth spending money on now. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 25, 2018 22:21:53 GMT
I could see the benefit if there was step-free access route from the eastbound platform at Barbican to the street that would be less walking than from Farringdon At the moment neither platform at Barbican has step free access from the street, as far as I am aware. Step free access to Cross-Liz from the street entrance at Barbican would be an advantage, but that could be via either platform - no need for duplication via both platforms. (Access to the Met/Circle is another matter) |
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Post by ducatisti on Nov 26, 2018 17:58:43 GMT
I wonder if it's to do with health and safety. At the moment, it's a platform. Platforms are an accepted risk. Once you start fencing off ordinary platforms, even temporarily, where does it end?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 26, 2018 20:39:07 GMT
Some disused platform faces are fenced off - Earlsfield and Wimbledon on SWR for example, and someone has mentioned the former LTSR platforms on the District.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 26, 2018 21:58:11 GMT
There are several former island platforms where one side has been fenced off to become a side platform after a new platform has been built.
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 26, 2018 22:21:03 GMT
Close to the topic of this thread, Liverpool Street springs to mind!
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Post by ducatisti on Nov 27, 2018 11:02:04 GMT
indeed - but there are also ones that haven't. There are plenty of bays that have been filled in too. From a pure H&S logic point of view, they all should be. From a not-spending-money/making-a-rod-for-your-own-back point of view, I can see why you wouldn't want to
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 27, 2018 11:11:08 GMT
Putney Bridge pfm.3 is fenced but Mansion House pfm.2 is not, little consistency.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 27, 2018 14:07:01 GMT
From a H&S point of view the risk is not identical at every platform - both in terms of the likelihood of someone falling off (higher at narrower and more crowded platforms; also higher at outdoor platforms given the greater chance of them being slippery) and in terms of the severity of consequences if someone does fall off (trains passing at high speed and live third rail both present a greater risk). Stationary trains adjacent to the platform but which will not open their doors on that side of the train also present a risk that someone will fall between the train and the platform attempting to board.
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Post by ducatisti on Nov 27, 2018 17:01:52 GMT
which is sort of my point - what LU won't want is for there to be a uniform position of "fence off all platform edges that are not in use"
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Post by malcolmffc on Nov 27, 2018 17:39:54 GMT
Barbican station is a disgrace. Needs a full refurb.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 27, 2018 18:42:24 GMT
malcolmffc but it's not worth spending the money on doing that until all the construction works are completed.
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Post by patrickb on Nov 27, 2018 21:21:42 GMT
Most Inner Circle Platforms underwent some sort of refurbishment within the last 50 years that have led them to look more run down than ever. Or as I like to call (PBD) Plaster Board Disease. Or perhaps I just pass Mile End too often.
Barbican, while it might be falling apart actually has retained most of it's original features and hasn't undergone the same level of coverage. It's a good opportunity for restoration and/or sprucing up of the existing infrastructure rather than just covering it. A nice glass roof would be nice.
But maybe when the magic money tree starts growing again, rather than always being chopped back by thee DfT axe.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 27, 2018 22:24:26 GMT
Most Inner Circle Platforms underwent some sort of refurbishment within the last 50 years that have led them to look more run down than ever. Or as I like to call (PBD) Plaster Board Disease. Or perhaps I just pass Mile End too often. Don't get me started about the ceilings at Mile End! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2018 15:53:17 GMT
As it stands, yes. I'm assuming the complications of having a building on Charterhouse Square partially overhanging the EB platform would have complicated a link there. Not surprising but still disappointing. It would be rather sad not to have Crossrail providing accessible routes to the entirety of all connecting stations. I dug into various Crossrail documents available online - and apparently there's a whole new footbridge at the western end of Barbican station that was supposed to be built. I wonder what happened to that? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2018 19:55:08 GMT
Not surprising but still disappointing. It would be rather sad not to have Crossrail providing accessible routes to the entirety of all connecting stations. I dug into various Crossrail documents available online - and apparently there's a whole new footbridge at the western end of Barbican station that was supposed to be built. I wonder what happened to that? Well - I can recall numerous meetings about the overbridge at the north western end of Barbican to provide access to Elizabeth line/Barbican but it was an early casualty of the spending axe. It was why the ex-Met signal cabin was demolished. RE; fencing off the disused platforms - this was discussed as part of the abortive refurbishment plans especially when the issue of segregating off what was to become the very long Moorgate train stabling sidings was being discussed. From a purely design standpoint we argued for demolition of the current canopy, so as to remove the platform centre columns, and a new cantilevered platform canopy witht he supports set back towards the disused platform edge. For screening we'd looked at v/e panelling as at Upton Park, etc, where the LTSR lines are 'hoarded' off. Needless to say, with the escalating costs and declining funding that too went. Off topic a bit but yes, Barbican is a shabby disgrace and don't LU and CoL know it. Given the potentail re-gen of the area, and access to Smithfield, I'd always thought that medium/long term a new entrance hall opening onto the side of Long Lane adjacent to the existing acoomodation block would be best as that would allow reconstruction of the block above the awful entrance staircases and possible lifts up to the high-level Barbican walkways. Back briefly to fencing off disused platforms I recall two discussions - Snaresbrook's flower beds adjacent to the toilet block (when someone worse for wear one evening tripped over the decorative railings as you do) and East Ham, east end by platform adjacent to the e/b District, when again someone unable to hold the bladder fell off the edge. |
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Post by brigham on Dec 4, 2018 9:00:42 GMT
There will be a day when 'old' footage of trains pulling into open platforms will be greeted with gasps of horror.
"They didn't have Health & Safety then..."
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