B for Beckton, Bank or Bombardier?

[Deleted]

Jun 12, 2019 12:13:15 GMT Chris M said:

Jun 12, 2019 10:50:14 GMT silenthunter said:

Wonder if these will be called the B23s?

They will be maintained at Beckton so the B prefix is assured, the 23 seems probable but it might of course slip to 24 if there is a significant holdup during the build phase.

The B relates to Bombardier, not Beckton.

[silenthunter]

The P for the original trains related to Poplar though.

[norbitonflyer]

Jun 13, 2019 11:34:35 GMT @judethecat said:

The B relates to Bombardier, not Beckton.

Really? Why, then, were the original units, built by Linke-Hoffman-Busch, and the later ones built by BREL at York for the Bank extension, known as P86 and P89 stock?

[Chris M]

Jun 13, 2019 11:34:35 GMT @judethecat said:

Jun 12, 2019 12:13:15 GMT Chris M said:

They will be maintained at Beckton so the B prefix is assured, the 23 seems probable but it might of course slip to 24 if there is a significant holdup during the build phase.

The B relates to Bombardier, not Beckton.

That's the first time I've ever heard that - do you have a source?

[Deep Level]

Jun 13, 2019 12:05:45 GMT Chris M said:

Jun 13, 2019 11:34:35 GMT @judethecat said:

The B relates to Bombardier, not Beckton.

That's the first time I've ever heard that - do you have a source?

I will certainly be very shocked if that turns out to be true.

[whistlekiller2000]

As far as I'm aware the prefix relates to the depot they're usually maintained at. The old P86/89's were maintained at Poplar and the B series at Beckton.

[North End]

Jun 13, 2019 12:44:41 GMT whistlekiller2000 said:

As far as I'm aware the prefix relates to the depot they're usually maintained at. The old P86/89's were maintained at Poplar and the B series at Beckton.

I've always assumed that B denoted Beckton, however on the face of it there's a slight lack of logic to this as Beckton (both extension and depot) didn't open until some time after the B90 stock entered service. With that in mind one wonders if B could, at least to some extent, refer to Bank? Although the P89 stock did run to Bank, it was always the case that the B stock and Bank went together.

[superteacher]

Another possibility is that the trains were built by BREL, so that maybe where the B comes from?

[norbitonflyer]

The only units built by BREL were the P89s.

Although BREL was later bought up by Bombardier, the later units were not built in the UK.

The B90s may have been ready before Beckton depot but they were not maintained at Poplar - there was no space for them. I recall them being stored in a long line on the not-yet-open viaduct of the extension

[Chris M]

Jun 13, 2019 19:02:09 GMT superteacher said:

Another possibility is that the trains were built by BREL, so that maybe where the B comes from?

The BREL-built trains were the P89 stock. The B90/B92/B2K and B07 trains were all built by Bombardier.

I've asked the DLR Twitter folk, although I'm not actually expecting them to know themselves but hopefully someone who does will spot the query!

[North End]

Jun 13, 2019 19:56:04 GMT norbitonflyer said:

The only units built by BREL were the P89s.

Although BREL was later bought up by Bombardier, the later units were not built in the UK.

The B90s may have been ready before Beckton depot but they were not maintained at Poplar - there was no space for them. I recall them being stored in a long line on the not-yet-open viaduct of the extension

Was it not the B92 stock which was stored? There was definitely B90 stock in service quite some time before Beckton opened. I seem to remember the signalling fitted was initially different - either the B92s didn’t have the original signalling fitted or the B90s didn’t have the Seltrac fitted, I forget which way round it was. In those days the service was generally B90 on Bank to Island Gardens, P86 on Tower Gateway to Island Gardens and P89 on Canary Wharf to Stratford. The Official Handbook from the time may well elaborate more.

[gantshill]

I have the third edition of the Docklands Light Rail Official Handbook to hand. (1994)
The section describing the trains sadly does not explain why either P or B was chosen.
It does say that all the P stock were delivered to Poplar, with the first few B stock also going to Poplar but the later ones were delivered to Beckton.
So the question remains unanswered for now.

[whistlekiller2000]

Jun 13, 2019 22:30:42 GMT gantshill said:

I have the third edition of the Docklands Light Rail Official Handbook to hand. (1994)
The section describing the trains sadly does not explain why either P or B was chosen.
It does say that all the P stock were delivered to Poplar, with the first few B stock also going to Poplar but the later ones were delivered to Beckton.
So the question remains unanswered for now.

I think it sensible to assume that the intended eventual destination for B stock was Beckton as the previous destination was P (Poplar). Either way, the manufacturer designation theory doesn't seem to hold much water due to the previous P stock designation.

[Chris M]

This article from City Metric mentions that the P was for Poplar and the B for Beckton (search for "Beckton") but I don't know how reliable it is.

[gantshill]

I thought to look at copies of Underground News, the London Underground Railway Society journal. Those from 1986 and 1987 can be consulted on their website.
I looked at references to the DLR rolling stock. None of those references gave a name to the rolling stock, so P86 seems not to have been a designation known in 1986.
This gets curiouser and curiouser!

Edited addition: not even P was used, just the unit numbers.

[norbitonflyer]

Jun 14, 2019 22:46:56 GMT gantshill said:

P86 seems not to have been a designation known in 1986.

Well, until there was more than one type of rolling stock on the DLR, there was no need for a classification system. I doubt that "Gate" stock was a term in common use when all Underground trains had gates.

[silenthunter]

Yep, probably applied retroactively.