Jubilee line stock issue (October 2019)

[Chris M]

I received this email from TfL earlier this evening:

Dear Mr McKenna,


During our regular safety inspections we have uncovered a fault with some of our Jubilee line trains. As a precaution, we are
removing these trains from service.


Services on the Jubilee line are beginning to wind down this evening. By the end of the evening only a limited shuttle service
between North Greenwich and Stratford will be in operation. Extra buses between North Greenwich and Stratford will also run.


Our engineers are working around the clock to carry out inspections. However Jubilee line services will be significantly disrupted
tomorrow morning and we advise you to seek alternative routes.



The remainder of the Tube network is unaffected, although the reduction in service will result in other lines and stations being
far busier than usual.

Does anyone have any additional information (they can share) about what the fault is?

[Chris M]

A further email this morning:

Dear Mr McKenna,

Further to our update last night, we are running a reduced service on the Jubilee line today.
 
We will continue to strengthen the service throughout the day as more trains become available. There are likely to be severe delays
for the entire day and we advise customers to seek alternative routes where possible.

Please check before you travel [click.email.tfl.gov.uk], replan your journey [click.email.tfl.gov.uk] or get live travel updates
@jubileeline [click.email.tfl.gov.uk] on Twitter.
 
We are sorry for the disruption this will cause.
 
Yours sincerely, 

Customer Information Team
Transport for London

[Chris M]

Tom Edwards on Twitter is reporting (with a photograph) that the issue is cracked coupling plates.

(if the tweet fails to load click here)

edit: only part of the photo is showing on preview and that part does not include the crack so click the image to see the whole thing

[nick66]

The Jubilee Line was part suspended this morning due to the temporary unavailability of trains. What was all that about?

[SunSeeker]

Regular safety inspection last night apparently uncovered a problem; cracking in the coupling plate which connects carriages to one another, so a lot of trains have not passed safety test to be in service.

[aslefshrugged]

Chris M already started a thread

districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/31045/jubilee-line-stock-issue-october

[nick66]

Thanks for the info, looking at the picture on that thread it all makes perfect sense that they had to check them all, but couldn’t they have been a bit more specific?

[sawb]

Given the similarities between the two stocks, what are the chances this could cause similar problems on the Northern line, or are the components affected different on the two stocks?

[Colin]

Northern line stock is not affected.

[aslefshrugged]

According to an ASLEF mail shot the cracks were on the underframe next to the coupler, they'd checked 45 trains this morning, 27 were okay, 18 had cracks with 18 left to check.

It also said they were checking the 1995s but so far there were no problems.

[roman80]

Oct 18, 2019 16:51:01 GMT aslefshrugged said:

According to an ASLEF mail shot the cracks were on the underframe next to the coupler, they'd checked 45 trains this morning, 27 were okay, 18 had cracks with 18 left to check.

It also said they were checking the 1995s but so far there were no problems.

How difficult and time consuming is the fix on average once the issue is identified?

[Chris L]

Oct 18, 2019 17:07:26 GMT roman80 said:

Oct 18, 2019 16:51:01 GMT aslefshrugged said:

According to an ASLEF mail shot the cracks were on the underframe next to the coupler, they'd checked 45 trains this morning, 27 were okay, 18 had cracks with 18 left to check.

It also said they were checking the 1995s but so far there were no problems.

How difficult and time consuming is the fix on average once the issue is identified?

Need to find out why it is happening too.

[aslefshrugged]

Oct 18, 2019 17:07:26 GMT roman80 said:

Oct 18, 2019 16:51:01 GMT aslefshrugged said:

According to an ASLEF mail shot the cracks were on the underframe next to the coupler, they'd checked 45 trains this morning, 27 were okay, 18 had cracks with 18 left to check.

It also said they were checking the 1995s but so far there were no problems.

How difficult and time consuming is the fix on average once the issue is identified?

Not a Scooby, I just drive the trains when they tell me to.

[londoner]

What is the purpose of that component in the photo where cracks were identified in several trains?

[aslefshrugged]

The cracks are reported to be on the underframe near to the coupler

The underframe is like the chassis on a car

The coupler is what holds the cars together, it a coupler goes then you transform one train into two smaller trains...

[aslefshrugged]

Another update, this time from RMT. The problem is on "the draw gear, the bar which connects the coupler to the train".

Eight trains have a serious fault and have been removed from service, three trains to be checked every three days, one train to be checked every 7 days and eight trains to be checked every 28 days.

"As yet a fix has not been identified, with a timescale not yet known."

www.rmtlondoncalling.org.uk/content/jubilee-line-train-fault-update?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

There may be trouble ahead...

[tjw]

Problems with draw gear are quite common... I suspect that it may have been a inadequate design that is failing after prolonged or heavy use.

At least one type of Met stock (Ashbury) had emergency chains if the coupling bar failed. Having spent quite some time dismantling draw gear prior to repair and reassembly the wear and damage can be quite an eye opener.

Hopefully they are going to check that the brake will apply if the train pulls apart...  Sadly supposedly fail safe systems have failed in the past!

[norbitonflyer]

Although with distributed power the stresses are less, there are still large forces transmitted through the drawgear. In a locomotive hauled - or propelled - train the force to get the entire train moving was transmitted through the coupling and drawgear between the tender and the leading wagon or carriage, so the drawgear of all rolling stock (since any vehicle could be at the front) had to be enormously strong.

[Chris M]

The working timetable indicates that the peak requirement is for 58 trains, which is obviously not achievable with a fleet of 54 serviceable trains.

[jimbo]

Can trains be reformed to halve the number affected?

[Chris M]

That will depend (partly) on whether it is just one carriage per train affected. If I've understood things correctly then there is the potential for this to affect both ends of every car (although the outer ends are presumably less likely to be affected).

[philthetube]

Because of the way the equipment is distributed throughout the train it would have to be for an identical car, but no reason why not if a quick fix is not identified.

[DWS]

Oct 19, 2019 18:30:38 GMT Chris M said:

The working timetable indicates that the peak requirement is for 58 trains, which is obviously not achievable with a fleet of 54 serviceable trains.

The Jubilee fleet has around 61 or 62 trains, have been retired from the Jubilee line since 2013, Towerman will know the numbers !

[Chris M]

There are 62 trains, but 8 are out of service due to the cracked coupling plates leaving 54 available for a 58 train peak service.

[DWS]

Oct 20, 2019 20:42:47 GMT Chris M said:

There are 62 trains, but 8 are out of service due to the cracked coupling plates leaving 54 available for a 58 train peak service.

Expect some peak hours cancellations on Monday 21 October.

[aslefshrugged]

Jubilee Line twitter 6:14am

Minor delays due to mechanical issues we have identified on a number of our trains.

[DWS]

Oct 21, 2019 6:15:25 GMT aslefshrugged said:

Jubilee Line twitter 6:14am

Minor delays due to mechanical issues we have identified on a number of our trains.

0906 Severe delays ☔️

[punkman]

I've not seen this mentioned here, but I've heard that the problem ONLY relates to the "7th cars;" i.e. the Special trailer cars which were added to the fleet around 2005 / 2006.

That would explain why Northern line trains are not affected, but one would also hope that the four complete new trains delivered at the same time would have been thoroughly checked too.

As an aside and a lay person, it certainly seems that ATO puts more of a stress on trains as the Jubilee line is much more "clunky" and nowhere near as smooth as pre ATO!

[underover]

ATO reduces the life span of a train by an estimated 10 years apparently.

[jimbo]

Oct 21, 2019 11:44:45 GMT punkman said:

I've not seen this mentioned here, but I've heard that the problem ONLY relates to the "7th cars;" i.e. the Special trailer cars which were added to the fleet around 2005 / 2006.

That would explain why Northern line trains are not affected, but one would also hope that the four complete new trains delivered at the same time would have been thoroughly checked too.

As an aside and a lay person, it certainly seems that ATO puts more of a stress on trains as the Jubilee line is much more "clunky" and nowhere near as smooth as pre ATO!

If only the 7th cars, explains why reformation of units is not an option. I don't think the PEDs work with a mix of 6 and 7 car trains, from a 7-car that slipped out early amongst the 6-car fleet!