December 2019 Tube Map

[tothetubetrains]

Hello everyone,


I was just wondering how the Tube Map (and London's Rail and Tube Services map) is going to look like in December 2019.

What I am very curious about since 2017 is if the Tube Map is going to be a 'Pocket map' or if it is getting enlarged this December.



This is because since December 2019, TfL Rail services will be extended as far as Reading, meaning that we should see 9 new stations on the Tube Map in the west of London never before on the tube map!



But if examine the current pocket tube map, there is literally no space on the left hand side of the tube map for the 9 stations to fit in! How do you think London Underground and Art on the Underground are going to manage this without enlarging the Pocket Tube Map with the 9 PAYG Travelcard Fare zones?



Here's a bit of discussion on Londonist: www.facebook.com/groups/londonistroundelramblings/permalink/708481909634357/



I will be posting once I get the new tube maps on my page here too: www.instagram.com/to_the_tube_trains/

How do you think the 9 stations will get squeezed in?

EDITED

[goldenarrow]

Consensus seems to suggest as the DLR has grown and London Overground has grown it's network, all these additions have been added by shrinking the existing diagram in its pocket map format. You could theoretically shoehorn in the nine stations to Reading by letting the line climb up towards Uxbridge paralleling the Central Line.

There is precedent for such warped proportions, Beckenham Junction and Woolwich Arsenal look within a whim of one another but are of course almost seven miles distant. Given that the Tube "Map" is a diagrammatic representation, it would be acceptable.

It is difficult to see just how much further the diagram can shrink, but arguably, some say the Tube Map stopped being legible some time ago.

[Chris M]

If they want to keep the current size (and not, say, add another fold) then they could move the "check before you travel" to the back (the area used for the advert about off peak on the most recent map), and extend the diagram onto all four folds. The key would fit in the bottom left corner beneath the line to Reading.

[londoner]

It has become silly. We keep using the same sized paper with the same number of folds. I am all for keeping historic items e.g. signage, tiles, signal boxes etc, where appropriate. However, in my view, the map really does need to be changed. I think it is no longer clear anymore and every significant change makes the map visually worse. There have been many alternative maps proposed, each with their good bits and bad bits, but the point is, that there is plenty of innovation to be made to make the map better.

I don't know how much negativity TfL would get if they decided to drastically alter the map. However, it does not need to be seen as a negative change. They can easily spin it as a positive change by getting communities involved in what is changed and how. For example, they can carry out consultations, involve local schools or involve local designers. Another issue which I think is related is the naming of the Overground branches. It is confusing for passengers. They need to change it and this is also another excellent opportunity to explore ideas with the communities.

In reality, I don't expect anything to change. I think TfL will just make the Elizabeth line curve upwards in the same direction as the Central line. We will continue to see a mess and it may get worse if TfL manage to take over more railway branches or the Crossrail 2 and Bakerloo extension are built.

[Chris M]

For example of a significant change causing a negative change see the removing of the river and zones in 2009.

Using a map that folded to a different width would require changing several hundred (at least) dispensers at stations and possibly other things behind the scenes. In the present climate that's not going to happen. Making it taller probably wouldn't have that effect but it's the horizontal distance that is constraining the map rather than vertical distance so that isn't likely to be a useful change. Non-standard paper sizes would also likely be an added expense (although 296 x 149mm, the current size, doesn't seem to be standard, it may be a division of one of course).

I do agree that the current map is trying to show too much. The step-free information should be dispensed with as it gives simultaneously too much, too little and misleading information - it distracts from the route finding purpose for those who don't need step-free information, doesn't give any indication of how large steps to trains might be, implies there is step-free interchange between Jubilee and Northern at London Bridge (there isn't) and that there isn't between the Jubilee at Bakerloo at Baker Street (there is in the same direction). It also doesn't give any useful information for people who can manage steps but not stairs. The barely-promoted step-free tube map and avoiding stairs map in contrast do provide this information and allow people to determine which parts of the network are accessible given their own particular needs. All three maps need to be promoted and available equally.

The walk lines are useful, but inconsistent. Heron Quays to Canary Wharf JLE is a shorter and easier interchange than between Canary Wharf DLR and JLE stations but only the latter is shown. Shepherd's Bush Central line to Overground requires crossing one road, Hanger Lane to Park Royal is quite a hike and requires negotiating a subway, Leytonstone to Leytonstone High Road is a similar distance to the Hanger Lane interchange (and no more complex than Northwick Park to Kenton) but isn't shown at all.

As for London Overground. Absolutely the lines need names. I was at North Greenwich the other day and the automated announcement said "London Overground is partially suspended." which is neither use nor ornament.

[londoner]

Nov 30, 2019 18:30:13 GMT Chris M said:

The walk lines are useful, but inconsistent. Heron Quays to Canary Wharf JLE is a shorter and easier interchange than between Canary Wharf DLR and JLE stations but only the latter is shown. Shepherd's Bush Central line to Overground requires crossing one road, Hanger Lane to Park Royal is quite a hike and requires negotiating a subway, Leytonstone to Leytonstone High Road is a similar distance to the Hanger Lane interchange (and no more complex than Northwick Park to Kenton) but isn't shown at all.

Would Paddington also be added to that list? As far as I am aware, the Hammersmith branch and the Edgware road branch reside in two physically separate stations and an interchange between the two therefore requires walking through the national rail part of the complex. If that understanding is correct, the map therefore indicates to some people to change for the Bakerloo line, from the Hammersmith branch, when Baker Street is perhaps more appropriate.

[Chris M]

A change between the H&C and Bakerloo at Paddington does indeed require going via the National Rail station, whether that counts as one or two stations is a matter of opinion! As for which interchange is better - that at Paddington is a longer walk but it can be achieved via lift and escalators, while Baker Street requires stairs so it depends on your needs and preferences.

A similar case is the interchange between Victoria and Northern lines at King's Cross - do you want a short walk (13m) with a single set of stairs (33 steps), an escalator and a short walk (12m) or a 24-metre walk, lift, long walk (207m), lift, short-ish walk (34m), ticket gates, long walk (137m), [seven steps, 20m slope or lift], ticket gates, lift and short walk (8m)? (details from here) - Access needs are complicated.

[John Tuthill]

Nov 30, 2019 20:35:09 GMT londoner said:

Nov 30, 2019 18:30:13 GMT Chris M said:

The walk lines are useful, but inconsistent. Heron Quays to Canary Wharf JLE is a shorter and easier interchange than between Canary Wharf DLR and JLE stations but only the latter is shown. Shepherd's Bush Central line to Overground requires crossing one road, Hanger Lane to Park Royal is quite a hike and requires negotiating a subway, Leytonstone to Leytonstone High Road is a similar distance to the Hanger Lane interchange (and no more complex than Northwick Park to Kenton) but isn't shown at all.

Would Paddington also be added to that list? As far as I am aware, the Hammersmith branch and the Edgware road branch reside in two physically separate stations and an interchange between the two therefore requires walking through the national rail part of the complex. If that understanding is correct, the map therefore indicates to some people to change for the Bakerloo line, from the Hammersmith branch, when Baker Street is perhaps more appropriate.

I'm old enough to remember at Notting Hill Gate,before the area above ground was redeveloped in the early '60s, to interchange from the Circle to Central lines, you had to come out to street level, and cross the road.

[rincew1nd]

Nov 30, 2019 18:30:13 GMT Chris M said:

Using a map that folded to a different width would require changing several hundred (at least) dispensers at stations and possibly other things behind the scenes. In the present climate that's not going to happen.

The standard leaflet racks do have slots for an A4 folded into three, so they wouldn't need changing, but they would have a redundant slot. I'm sure with sufficient marketing (biggest redesign of the iconic tube map in history to reflect the growing needs of London) it could be done, or maybe we just continue to cram stuff in until people use a phone app instead?

[goldenarrow]

Nov 29, 2019 20:13:53 GMT goldenarrow said:

...You could theoretically shoehorn in the nine stations to Reading by letting the line climb up towards Uxbridge paralleling the Central Line....

Guess what I saw...

[Chris L]

Well it's certainly not a map.

[Deep Level]

I sure hope no-one attempts to walk from Northolt to Reading!

[Chris M]

I suspect that there are many people who have via the canal and Thames Path. Not the quickest or most direct route of course!

[futurix]

Just when you thought they cannot make it any worse.

[brooklynbound]

The esteemed Diamond Geezer writes about it today.

diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2019/12/tube-map-december-2019.html

One of the comments mentions there are also new in-car line diagrams. Anyone got a picture?

Look out for a new Piccadilly line in-car diagram (seems v.rare at the moment) - there's more of this kind of nonsense going on on it...

[goldenarrow]

DG has also pointed out a double bluff on account of the geographic distortion of the diagram. Maidenhead is on the banks of the Thames, and yet the blue ribbon has had to stay unaltered such is the extreme scale of distortion in W.London.

[ijmad]

I was hoping they'd take a cue from the past for the stations beyond West Drayton:




Surely this would be tidier.

[Chris M]

The new digital tube map is now on the website. The PDF is titled (Online Tube Map - December 2019(b)" which makes me wonder if this is the second revision this month, but I've not yet found an earlier edition, if there is one.

Changes: October to December
TfL Rail to Reading added with a blue background from Iver north/west. This has been added to the key as "Outside fare zones, Oyster not valid".

In consequence Southall and Hayes & Harlington, are now due west of Hanwell. In consequence, zone 4 is narrower meaning Greenford has moved south east so the label stays wholly within the zone. The Z5/Z6 boundary now runs along the TfL Rail Heathrow branch rather than continuing to the edge of the map in a direct diagonal line from Hatton Cross as previously (to accommodate West Drayton).

Some riverboat piers have added with walk-lines to the nearest station: Imperial Wharf, Vauxhall, Waterloo, Westminster, Embankment, London Bridge, Blackfriars, Tower Hill/Tower Gateway, Cutty Sark, North Greenwich and Woolwich Arsenal. These stations have lost their riverboat interchange symbol.

Park Royal has moved south and Hanger Lane has moved northwest slightly so they are now aligned vertically with the label for the latter now on two lines. The walk line joining the two is very slightly shorter, so this may be the reason.

Putney Bridge has gained a riverboat interchange symbol, meaning it and Parsons Green move north slightly to accommodate it.

Imperial Wharf has moved northwest slightly so the walk-line to the riverboat pier is straight and long enough to see.

Also in consequence of the riverboat piers, the vertical section of the Thames east of Pimlico is now further east (allowing space for Vauxhall Pier and incidentally making it clearer Pimlico isn't on river) and the Temple-St James's Park section is further south. (to accommodate Westminster and Embankment piers). This and Waterloo Pier means Waterloo and Southwark stations also move south (with consequential adjustment to the Jubilee and Waterloo and City lines).

For space reasons (presumably) Westminster is now labelled west of the Jubilee line blob rather than south of the Circle line one. St James's Park label has moved south of the line in consequence.

Due to Tower Pier now being shown, Tower Hill has moved slightly west and Tower Gateway has moved slightly south west. This means Monument is now labelled north of the Circle line rather than south, possibly implying that the Northern and DLR stations have this name rather than "Bank".

To allow for North Greenwich Pier, North Greenwich station has moved east and the Jubilee line now takes a sharper corner here. This has put the North Greenwich station blob on the bend in the line, which will be disapproved of by some. Better would have been to move the station blob west and put the pier north or north east of the station. In consequence of this the dangleway, both its stations, Royal Victoria DLR and the vertical stretch of the Thames have all moved east slightly.

Possibly to ensure Woolwich Arsenal Pier is fully within Zone 4 (although river services have their own completely separate zonal system), Woolwich Arsenal moves east and very slightly south, the DLR extending further south east of King George V before turning south to cross the river in consequence.

Canary Wharf is now labelled on two lines rather than one, possibly so the riverboat interchange symbol is not adjacent to the river (Canary Wharf Pier is more than 10 minutes walk from the Jubilee line station so it doesn't get a blob).

Goodmayes and Gidea Park are now step-free from the street to the platform.

The Central line now runs adjacent to TfL between east of Mile End and just north east of Stratford. At Stratford the Central line and Overground blob has been deleted so these now share the blob that was previously TfL Rail only. This blob however has not moved so it isn't centred on the two lines. This makes me wonder if the blob deletion was intentional - especially as in previous maps they have been moving away from lines being directly adjacent where tracks are shared, let alone where they aren't? In consequence of this, the whole Central line and all the stations east/north of Stratford also move east. The zone boundaries have not moved, so Hainault's label moves inside the loop so it doesn't cross the boundary, which means Woodford's label is now outside the loop to give it space. This looks less good than before imo.

"Outside fare zones" labels have been added for Shenfield, Watford and TfL Rail between Reading and Iver.

[futurix]

I think TfL is running out of the ways to ruin the map - so I can't wait for the buses added to it.

[John Tuthill]

Dec 15, 2019 16:40:53 GMT futurix said:

I think TfL is running out of the ways to ruin the map - so I can't wait for the buses added to it.

Maybe they're Jackson Pollock fans

[londoner]

Already reported by Geoff Marshall on 12th but the paper map is available. I picked mine up at Wood Lane.

The zones are extremely difficult to see and I think a lot of people will be caught out by the special fares because of this. Also note that Heathrow via TfL rail services are still not listed as special fares either.

EDIT1: There also seems to be an inconsistency with the zoning colour on the paper map. There is a legend called "Outside fare zones, Oyster not valid" and a grey blob next to it. Shenfield and TfL services beyond West Drayton have these grey blobs and have "Outside fare zones" listed next to them. But Watford, which also has "Outside fare zones" listed in it, has a white fare zone colour!

EDIT2: On the paper map, Greenford station is listed on the right of the central line, so its very close to Alperton/Sudbury stations. Looks ridculous because there is a lot of space on the left on the central line?!

[ijmad]

The use of the dotted lines is now inconsistent - they're used in Zone 1 to link tube stations with river piers, but not in other places in Zone 1 where there's a walking distance interchange.

[Chris L]

It's just a real mess.

Used to be the best in the World.

Now being produced by people who don't understand the purpose.

[ijmad]

I wonder why is Heathrow T2&3 shown as an interchange blob rather than a separate tube station and rail station (correctly named Heathrow Central) with dotted interchange?

Also why doesn't Heron Quays have a dotted line interchange with Canary Wharf jubilee?

[Chris M]

For the latter avoiding confusion over the name of the JLE station is the only reason I can think of. For the Heathrow stations (and T4 is the same) I don't know - maybe because you don't have to go out doors (but then you don't at Canary Wharf either)?

[ijmad]

Dec 16, 2019 14:44:11 GMT Chris M said:

For the latter avoiding confusion over the name of the JLE station is the only reason I can think of. For the Heathrow stations (and T4 is the same) I don't know - maybe because you don't have to go out doors (but then you don't at Canary Wharf either)?

They are physically separate stations with separate gate lines, though, right?

TfL's journey planner claims the walk is an 18 minute interchange, so it shouldn't even qualify for a dotted line, although I could understand them using one for this as it's a bit of a special case. Certainly doesn't seem like it should be a blob though.

[John Tuthill]

Dec 16, 2019 13:14:57 GMT Chris L said:

It's just a real mess.

Used to be the best in the World.

Now being produced by people who don't understand the purpose.

And if you mentioned 'Harry Beck' they'd say "Who does he play for?"

[whistlekiller2000]

Dec 16, 2019 13:14:57 GMT Chris L said:

It's just a real mess.

Used to be the best in the World.

Now being produced by people who don't understand the purpose.

I live nearly 200 miles away from the place so I'll run it by a few of the locals (who are used to a couple of trains or buses per hour if they're lucky) to see if they're able to understand it. If they can I'll give it the thumbs up.

[Chris M]

Chris L what is the purpose then? I thought it was to be a diagrammatic representation of TfL's rail transportation routes for route planning purposes.

I feel it does this job rather well. It could do it better - the step-free symbols are misleading, the walklines are inconsistent and the riverboat piers more clutter than use on balance (in contrast to the riverboat interchange symbols, which are useful) and some parts could do with tweaking. Overall however, I disagree that it is "just a real mess".

If however its purpose is to be a static piece of art, then you might have a point, but I suspect most users would opt for something that reflects the transport network as it is today over something that makes compromises to fit with a 21st century idea of 1930s aesthetics.

[orienteer]

It's now so crammed that it is very difficult to read at all, with a tiny typeface. It needs to be a larger size, and would be far more useful if it also included NR London services, especially for South London.