Temporary changes to Older Person’s Freedom Pass

[Dstock7080]

Temporary changes to Older Person’s Freedom Pass and 60+ Oyster card

This will mean that all passengers with an Older Person's Freedom Pass, 60+ Oyster photocard or English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use those passes during morning peak hours in order to help support social distancing on the public transport network and help control the coronavirus.

From Monday 15 June, changes to the ticketing system will mean these cards are automatically set to be not valid during the morning peak period (04:30 to 09:00) Monday to Friday. They will continue to be valid at all other times on weekdays and all day on weekends and Bank Holidays.

[Chris L]

Why doesn't the poster show the 0430 start to the restriction?

[stapler]

In my case, this will be an exact reversal of the pre-epidemic situation.I could use my ENCTS pass at ant time on TfL buses, but not till 0900 on any other bus in Essex. To allow OAPs to get to their 7-8 supermarket slots, ECC made their passes available at any time. So soon, I shall be able to get on an Essex bus at any time, but a TFL one only after 9!

[AndrewPSSP]

That's odd - "https://tfl.gov.uk/coronavirus" brings up a blank white screen.

[stapler]

Jun 5, 2020 22:28:33 GMT AndrewPSSP said:

That's odd - "https://tfl.gov.uk/coronavirus" brings up a blank white screen.

Perhaps their server has a virus?

BTW, this will lead to a resurrection of the word "twerly" as a synonym for OAP (as in "am I too early?") - one of the few words in the language invented by London Transport staff.

[revupminster]

Jun 5, 2020 7:03:24 GMT stapler said:

In my case, this will be an exact reversal of the pre-epidemic situation.I could use my ENCTS pass at ant time on TfL buses, but not till 0900 on any other bus in Essex. To allow OAPs to get to their 7-8 supermarket slots, ECC made their passes available at any time. So soon, I shall be able to get on an Essex bus at any time, but a TFL one only after 9!

Essex and all the other local authorities will probably revert back to the original time restriction which in my area is 9.30am-11pm.

[stapler]

They may do, but not quite yet. Hertfordshire always had an "any time " policy.
Essex was 0900.
One of the problems would be the creation of a mini-peak as OAPs all crowd on the bus at 9.30. Not desirable for social distancing among the most vulnerable - as will happen in London.

[35b]

But possibly less of a concern than the alternative in high peak? There’s a saying about leading horses to water which I think applies here.

[AndrewPSSP]

Jun 6, 2020 11:46:19 GMT stapler said:

Jun 5, 2020 22:28:33 GMT AndrewPSSP said:

That's odd - "https://tfl.gov.uk/coronavirus" brings up a blank white screen.

Perhaps their server has a virus?

BTW, this will lead to a resurrection of the word "twerly" as a synonym for OAP (as in "am I too early?") - one of the few words in the language invented by London Transport staff.

Great pun haha

[philthetube]

When I was on the buses in London in the 90's they were always known in my depot as wombles, the first time I heard twerly was in the North East.

[Chris M]

I did a little of bit research when added "twirly" to Wiktionary. The earliest citations I found were from the mid-1980s and not geographically limited but clearly linked to buses. That research was not exhaustive however and such a term would be in verbal use long before it was written down.

[dmncf]

Am I correct that London Councils pay for the 'core' of the Older Person's Freedom Pass concession? Do the forthcoming changes affect what London Councils pay for, or do the changes only affect 'add-on' elements of the concession paid for by TfL?

[MoreToJack]

The changes are only the 'add-on', as you call it, that is early-morning Tube and bus travel. The changes bring London in line with the rest of the country (and indeed ENCTS as a whole).

[Deleted]

I can remember pre oyster this was always the case

[revupminster]

The government only pay for the bus concession 9.30- 23.00 which it is in my area. The GLC and now the mayor pays for all the extra add-ons as maybe other councils where they have trams or metro services because it is such a vote winner. London pensioners live in fantasy land as far as free travel goes that most other pensioners can only dream of. My London Freedom pass has better availability than my retired staff pass although that does go to Reading now courtesy of Crossrail.

[brigham]

Londoners in general benefit from travel services far beyond other folks' wildest dreams.
Your 'Trains per Hour' figures correspond to out 'Trains per Day' if we're lucky.
Otherwise, it's more like 'Trains per Week'!

[John Tuthill]

Jun 9, 2020 7:39:44 GMT brigham said:

Londoners in general benefit from travel services far beyond other folks' wildest dreams.
Your 'Trains per Hour' figures correspond to out 'Trains per Day' if we're lucky.
Otherwise, it's more like 'Trains per Week'!

Or as they used to say: "We don't use a clock, we use a calendar"

[Chris L]

Jun 8, 2020 22:40:56 GMT revupminster said:

The government only pay for the bus concession 9.30- 23.00 which it is in my area. The GLC and now the mayor pays for all the extra add-ons as maybe other councils where they have trams or metro services because it is such a vote winner. London pensioners live in fantasy land as far as free travel goes that most other pensioners can only dream of. My London Freedom pass has better availability than my retired staff pass although that does go to Reading now courtesy of Crossrail.

When I worked at Tube Lines there was a guy who could have retired but he didn't yet have enough years to retain his staff pass. He intended to work until he did.

I explained to him that my 60+ Oyster had better availability than a staff pass and that he would later get a Freedom Pass.

He later found out that that one of his inter company moves counted as a break in service so he wouldn't retain his staff pass.

Freedom passes mean that many of the elderly retain their mobility. Better than sitting at home.

[rincew1nd]

Jun 9, 2020 9:32:25 GMT John Tuthill said:

Or as they used to say: "We don't use a clock, we use a calendar"

The 1tpw (train per week) from Clitheroe to Hellifield (a distance of 13mi 46ch) has been cancelled for the rest of the year. Apparently this is ok because there is an alternate route: via Leeds (a distance of 86miles).

[phil]

Jun 9, 2020 19:36:03 GMT rincew1nd said:

Jun 9, 2020 9:32:25 GMT John Tuthill said:

Or as they used to say: "We don't use a clock, we use a calendar"

The 1tpw (train per week) from Clitheroe to Hellifield (a distance of 13mi 46ch) has been cancelled for the rest of the year. Apparently this is ok because there is an alternate route: via Leeds (a distance of 86miles).

The main economic focus of Clitheroe is southwards to Blackburn not north to Settle Carlisle or Carnforth.

To be fair the service northwards was only put on to cater for Hill walkers etc wanting to spend their Sunday leisure time rambling over the fells. Hellifield was (and still is) is a tiny village - it just happened to be an important railway junction so has an absurdly grand railway station serving not a lot.

Given the Government is telling people to NOT use public transport unless essential (and pooping out for a Sunday stroll doesn't count a an essential journey) then if the trains did run they would be empty.

[rincew1nd]

Jun 16, 2020 18:08:26 GMT phil said:

Jun 9, 2020 19:36:03 GMT rincew1nd said:

The 1tpw (train per week) from Clitheroe to Hellifield (a distance of 13mi 46ch) has been cancelled for the rest of the year. Apparently this is ok because there is an alternate route: via Leeds (a distance of 86miles).

The main economic focus of Clitheroe is southwards to Blackburn not north to Settle Carlisle or Carnforth.

To be fair the service northwards was only put on to cater for Hill walkers etc wanting to spend their Sunday leisure time rambling over the fells. Hellifield was (and still is) is a tiny village - it just happened to be an important railway junction so has an absurdly grand railway station serving not a lot.

Given the Government is telling people to NOT use public transport unless essential (and pooping out for a Sunday stroll doesn't count a an essential journey) then if the trains did run they would be empty.

I don't disagree with what you're saying about the raison d'être of the service north of Hellifield, I was trying to be cynical about the service frequency in some cities and some parts of the country.

[spsmiler]

My concern is that the significant cost of keeping trains running that few can use will lead to a combination of steep fare increases and railway retrenchment (line closures). Maybe not in London, though.

[North End]

Jun 19, 2020 21:25:52 GMT spsmiler said:

My concern is that the significant cost of keeping trains running that few can use will lead to a combination of steep fare increases and railway retrenchment (line closures). Maybe not in London, though.

Ultimately the longer this goes on for, especially this current state of limbo where we still have a most ridiculously loose lockdown but accompanied by many people still not at work for one reason of another, the bigger the ultimate bill which we are collectively going to have to pick up. I get the feeling the government wasn’t expecting things to drag on to this extent, indeed I think most of us expected a short and sharp lockdown to allow the government to regain control of events, which in practice has taken much longer than hoped for, and is still rather fragile.

I’m not sure we’ll necessarily see line closures, but there will be a renewed focus on efficiency savings. No doubt some lessons from the past will be forgotten, like for example that a half hourly service of 4-car trains can deliver better revenue that an hourly service of 8-car trains as the extra ridership from a more convenient service offsets the cost of an extra crew.

Ultimately we can expect a rather rough few years, and of course CV19 is still with us and will no doubt throw a few more curved balls along the way.

So it’s hard to see how a combination of tax rises (we’ve already had a sneak preview with the congestion charge) and cuts is going to be avoided. Likewise it’s widely expected many businesses will not survive the year, which will put further strain on things.

[stapler]

Jun 8, 2020 16:22:53 GMT MoreToJack said:

The changes are only the 'add-on', as you call it, that is early-morning Tube and bus travel. The changes bring London in line with the rest of the country (and indeed ENCTS as a whole).

They don't actually, as OAP travel starts at 9 rather than 9.30 as in the rest of England (with exceptions, such as Essex ENCTS passes, where it also begins at 9).