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Post by 1018509 on Jul 18, 2020 16:46:06 GMT
What happened to the experimental blue, green and red/orange tube trains London Underground had built years ago but rarely used after one of them dropped a compressor, I believe, in service.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 18, 2020 20:28:10 GMT
The 1986 Tube Stock, prototypes for the 1992 Stock were withdrawn from service 14 August 1989, all except green DM car 16 were scrapped in autumn 1996.
DM car 16 resides in the LT Museum Depot Acton.
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Post by stapler on Jul 19, 2020 12:17:25 GMT
I remember going to Woodford satation to inspect them the day after the 1987 election, when James Arbuthnot MP had his loudspeaker cat outside thanking voters.
I seem to remember the prototypes were better than the 92TS production fleet turned out!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 19, 2020 13:54:34 GMT
. . . when James Arbuthnot MP had his loudspeaker cat outside thanking voters. very talented! |
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Post by Chris L on Jul 19, 2020 15:36:56 GMT
I remember going to Woodford satation to inspect them the day after the 1987 election, when James Arbuthnot MP had his loudspeaker cat outside thanking voters. I seem to remember the prototypes were better than the 92TS production fleet turned out! Not really. I worked on getting them displayed at Woodford. They were very rough and ready. The window apertures on the blue train looked like they had been cut with a can opener. The overhead hand rails were positioned so that an average height person would hit their head when getting up from the middle seats. They were all concept designs. |
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gantshill
I had to change my profile pic!
Posts: 1,374
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Post by gantshill on Jul 19, 2020 18:11:48 GMT
I enjoyed seeing them at Woodford too. They seemed very modern compared to the 1960 and 1962 stock generally seen at that station. I also managed to get an unexpected ride on the 1986 stock when one came in to Charing Cross from the overrun tunnels. I think I when on a detour to somewhere north of Finchley Road and back, moving cars a couple of times to travel in whatever varieties were included in the train that day.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 20, 2020 2:58:59 GMT
These trains did come to a spectacular end. I take it that trials had not been completed at the time of the derailment, but that modifications were considered uneconomic. How else would the resultant Central line trains have adopted the curved saloon windows which result in excessive solar gain, and reduced body rigidity? Major faults that trials should have revealed. The experimental 1935 prototypes resulted in the reliable 1938 fleet. In that regard the 1986 trials were a failure.
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Post by t697 on Jul 20, 2020 8:04:27 GMT
These trains did come to a spectacular end. I take it that trials had not been completed at the time of the derailment, but that modifications were considered uneconomic. How else would the resultant Central line trains have adopted the curved saloon windows which result in excessive solar gain, and reduced body rigidity? Major faults that trials should have revealed. The experimental 1935 prototypes resulted in the reliable 1938 fleet. In that regard the 1986 trials were a failure. I recall it was a gearbox reaction link failure that casued the derailment, not a compressor as suggested earlier in this thread. So the adequacy of strucural assessments and provision of secondary retention got a new focus afterwards. There were some other big and small lessons including; - relearning why body end door handles should be designed not to trap fingers, - getting the best out of air suspension for the Tube, although 92TS still had some refinement to do early on. - how not to do externally hung Tube train shape doors for reliable operation. - The difficulties of keeping the joints in steerable bogies all in good condition, - Test engineers and train crew don't work so well with no train heating in the middle of winter. - The difficulty of getting adequate brake performance with small motor mounted disc brakes. That said, the blue train 4 car did go on to be used for a few years as a test bed for various signalling developments on the test track and I seem to recall a motor alternator from it then being used to power a saloon air cooling demonstrator on a C stock car. Not sure whether that came to fruition. In all though, I agree the 1986TS probably wasn't the most cost effective way of getting the useful data it did provide. But then again, perhaps it stopped some bad stuff getting on to 92TS so there's more value than might be imagined. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 20, 2020 9:06:53 GMT
I seem to recall a motor alternator from it then being used to power a saloon air cooling demonstrator on a C stock car. Not sure whether that came to fruition. Yes it did, car 6513. |
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Post by mb2014 on Jul 20, 2020 15:08:45 GMT
Derailment at Neasden 14.08.1989 Which 6 cars were in the derailment train? Blue unit 13-23-24-14 had already run for the last time on 17.07.1989
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 20, 2020 17:23:56 GMT
Derailment at Neasden 14.08.1989 Which 6 cars were in the derailment train? Blue unit 13-23-24-14 had already run for the last time on 17.07.1989 N12-22+25-15+23-13S. 22+25-15 being the cars derailed. Unit 14-24 last ran 26 June 1989 |
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Post by mb2014 on Jul 25, 2020 8:04:28 GMT
Was there ever an occasion when there were two six car trains (ie all the 1986 stock) in passenger service at the same time?
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Post by t697 on Jul 25, 2020 10:18:38 GMT
Was there ever an occasion when there were two six car trains (ie all the 1986 stock) in passenger service at the same time? I'm pretty sure permission was only for one to run at a time. I could be wrong. Also, the doorgear on these trains was rather flawed and the rolling stock engineering department had to provide a riding mechanic as it were to spray the runners of sticky doors, so staffing up for two trains on multiple shifts would have been a challenge and slowed other work back in the office. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Jul 25, 2020 13:58:21 GMT
I'm pretty sure that there was permission to run two, but only one at a time generally made it into service.
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 27, 2020 9:09:01 GMT
I thought that I should add this here - 1989 was the last year before I bought a camcorder, so this was filmed with silent super 8 film and the image is somewhat 'soft'.
Mostly filmed at West Hampstead with one scene at Neasden.
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Post by bassmike on Jul 27, 2020 15:48:04 GMT
I remember going to Woodford satation to inspect them the day after the 1987 election, when James Arbuthnot MP had his loudspeaker cat outside thanking voters. I seem to remember the prototypes were better than the 92TS production fleet turned out! Not really. I worked on getting them displayed at Woodford. They were very rough and ready. The window apertures on the blue train looked like they had been cut with a can opener. The overhead hand rails were positioned so that an average height person would hit their head when getting up from the middle seats. They were all concept designs. Duid you say he had his loudspeaker CAT there? |
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Post by bassmike on Jul 27, 2020 15:57:36 GMT
I thought that I should add this here - 1989 was the last year before I bought a camcorder, so this was filmed with silent super 8 film and the image is somewhat 'soft'. Mostly filmed at West Hampstead with one scene at Neasden. Did you notice the typical "neasden bounce" as it approached the platform over the points? |
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 22, 2020 19:15:23 GMT
Was there ever an occasion when there were two six car trains (ie all the 1986 stock) in passenger service at the same time? I'm pretty sure permission was only for one to run at a time. I could be wrong. Also, the doorgear on these trains was rather flawed and the rolling stock engineering department had to provide a riding mechanic as it were to spray the runners of sticky doors, so staffing up for two trains on multiple shifts would have been a challenge and slowed other work back in the office. My film footage (seen in some of the other posts, above) shows the train being delayed by a sticky door not closing. This was on a blue car. Later in the film we see footage showing all four red cars plus two green cars in service ... and no 'sticky door' blue cars. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 22, 2020 20:12:14 GMT
I'm pretty sure permission was only for one to run at a time. I could be wrong. My film footage (seen in some of the other posts, above) shows the train being delayed by a sticky door not closing. This was on a blue car. Later in the film we see footage showing all four red cars plus two green cars in service ... and no 'sticky door' blue cars. The footage can't have all been taken on the same day though, as the first clip shows a train with all three colours (red-green-blue) and the others a train with two red and one green. As there were only two units of each colour there must have been a re-formation of the sets between the first clip and the second. |
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 23, 2020 11:00:53 GMT
My film footage (seen in some of the other posts, above) shows the train being delayed by a sticky door not closing. This was on a blue car. Later in the film we see footage showing all four red cars plus two green cars in service ... and no 'sticky door' blue cars. The footage can't have all been taken on the same day though, as the first clip shows a train with all three colours (red-green-blue) and the others a train with two red and one green. As there were only two units of each colour there must have been a re-formation of the sets between the first clip and the second. I thought the same when watching it yesterday, unfortunately I no longer remember the exact days and times I filmed this. I wish I had taken a battery powered cassette machine with me - once I realised that I had no sound recordings of the R, CO/CP stocks and Class 306 mainline trains I started doing this with other types of train* but the unscheduled early withdrawal of these experimental tube trains prevented me from doing it with them. *)This includes the 1962ts, only to later find that my Christmas 1989 purchase of a camcorder meant that I need not have bothered doing it with these trains |
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Post by straphanger on Nov 3, 2020 19:25:19 GMT
. . . when James Arbuthnot MP had his loudspeaker cat outside thanking voters. very talented! He obviously thought they should be running on the Miaowtropolitan Line.
I'll get me coat.
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Post by brigham on Nov 4, 2020 9:39:44 GMT
"James Arbuthnot had a cat,
It helped him paint his fences.
And when he asked about the cost,
It told him "Claim Expenses!".
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