S8 10 year anniversary

[Tom]

I believe it was both power supply and provision of Low loss composite conductor rail, plus track circuit immunisation and other signalling enabling works to accommodate S stock.

[philthetube]

Aug 5, 2020 13:44:18 GMT metman said:

Still don’t have any real love for the S stock. I loved the A stock and still miss them. The capacity was an issue though and they just couldn’t cope with modern passenger loads. They did very well to make it to 50 years and it was a credit to all involved. The saddest thing is that none have remained in working order.

The S stock do a job though but seem awfully slow (the reduced fast trains don’t help) they are fit for purpose.

Unsurprisingly I love the 1972 stock and will always try and get one given the option! They will hopefully go on longer and do a pretty good job on a relatively simple line.

They are not slow, they just feel it because the ride is so much better, They are quicker than either A stock or turbos climbing up to Amersham.

[t697]

Aug 5, 2020 22:25:17 GMT Tom said:

I believe it was both power supply and provision of Low loss composite conductor rail, plus track circuit immunisation and other signalling enabling works to accommodate S stock.

Signalling track circuits (previously 33Hz) as mentioned, also adding the OPO TTCCTV, S stock CSDE beacons, S stock stop markers, some platform end barrier moves, platform edge adjustments, Mind the Gap markings and probably other stuff I've forgotten.  Did the cross track walkways get moved in Ricky sidings?

[class411]

Aug 6, 2020 1:00:16 GMT philthetube said:

Aug 5, 2020 13:44:18 GMT metman said:

Still don’t have any real love for the S stock. I loved the A stock and still miss them. The capacity was an issue though and they just couldn’t cope with modern passenger loads. They did very well to make it to 50 years and it was a credit to all involved. The saddest thing is that none have remained in working order.

The S stock do a job though but seem awfully slow (the reduced fast trains don’t help) they are fit for purpose.

Unsurprisingly I love the 1972 stock and will always try and get one given the option! They will hopefully go on longer and do a pretty good job on a relatively simple line.

They are not slow, they just feel it because the ride is so much better, They are quicker than either A stock or turbos climbing up to Amersham.

This is an interesting effect.

My journeys to London are now on Electrostars and Javalins, and, because of the vastly superior ride, they never seen to hurtle along in the way the slam door stock did.

[t697]

Absence of openable/open windows seems to generate more isolation from the outside as well as the smoother ride of modern suspension and less rattling and harshness. All tend to reduce the immediate impression of speed.

[countryman]

This from Wikipedia.

The S Stock has faster acceleration than previous trains, at 1.3 m/s2 (2.9 mph/s), but its top speed is 100 km/h (62 mph), 13 km/h (8 mph) slower than A Stock but faster than C and D Stocks.

Also, something I didn't know about (if it is true).

The S designation stands for suburban[4], following the London Underground tradition of designating surface stock with a letter associated with its intended route—A Stock on the Metropolitan line to Amersham,[5] the C Stock on the Circle line,[6] and D Stock on the District line

[Tom]

I'm certainly not convinced about the 'S' standing for suburban, as they're anything but a suburban train. I note the origin of the reference comes from TfL Information Governance but I would question the correctness of that, and suggest that it stood for 'Sub Surface'.

t697 what's your opinion?

[t697]

Aug 6, 2020 10:07:24 GMT Tom said:

I'm certainly not convinced about the 'S' standing for suburban, as they're anything but a suburban train. I note the origin of the reference comes from TfL Information Governance but I would question the correctness of that, and suggest that it stood for 'Sub Surface'.

t697 what's your opinion?

My recollection is that 'S' was chosen as a letter not previously used in the sub-surface stock alphabet and that it was a good one to choose as it can stand for 'sub-surface' and hence not be line specific, also it can stand for 'super', 'special' or 'superlative' which it is of course! .  Or tries to be.

Also suggested was the use of 'S class' by a well known luxury car maker might generate a positive image for S stock for some people.

I also remember it was something LUL and Metronet SSL had no trouble agreeing quite quickly!!

[t697]

Aug 6, 2020 10:00:43 GMT countryman said:

This from Wikipedia.

The S Stock has faster acceleration than previous trains, at 1.3 m/s2 (2.9 mph/s), but its top speed is 100 km/h (62 mph), 13 km/h (8 mph) slower than A Stock but faster than C and D Stocks.

The acceleration settings in the non-ATC areas are a little lower, same as D stock but at least we were able to improve the acceleration over A stock safely.
The top speeds of S7 trains in the non-ATC areas is set appropriately for the existing signalling.
Full performance is available in ATC but the signalling determines how much of that is used.

[norbitonflyer]

Aug 6, 2020 11:25:26 GMT t697 said:

'S' was chosen as a letter not previously used in the sub-surface stock alphabet

It was, but not since 1950. Ex Metropolitan Railway experimental saloon cars 2598 and 2599 (originally 198 and 199) built in 1925 as prototypes for the stock for the Watford extension - the production series were compartment stock so these two remained unique. They latterly worked with control trailer 6557 (originally MR 106) as a 3-car train on the East London Line. I assume the "S" and "T" designations for ex-Metropolitan main line stock were coined some time after the introduction of the new R stock in 1947, but before the withdrawal of this unit three years later, although oddly the former MR Circle Line stock, the last of which ran on New Years Eve 1950, seems never to have been allocated a letter.

(Source, Brian Hardy's "Underground Train file)

Letters A, C, D and H have also been recycled, but curiously I and J were never used. H was originally used, in 1925, for reconditioned B stock (being the next available letter), and later for any stock still with Hand-operated doors.

[slugabed]

It was common,in alphabetical sequences,not to use letters I and J for fear of mixing them up with each other or the number 1.
Usually,the letter Q was missed out as well,due to its resembling both letter O and number 0....but I think in the case of Q Stock the use of the letter was deliberate.

[jimbo]

Metronet SSL introduced it as the S for Sub-Surface stock, the name for the Infraco they won. It could have been S for standard stock, as it had less variety than the former standard stock on the tube gauge lines!

[Chris M]

There is some discussion of the stock names in this old thread, including a mention by prjb that "E" for "Everywhere" was considered in the early days of the project.

[spsmiler]

S for 'standee' - because of reduced seating capacity?