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Post by imran on Aug 8, 2024 9:26:01 GMT
An incline lift would work well for Alperton! I wonder how TFL can make Colliers Wood & Tooting Broadway step-free?
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gefw
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Post by gefw on Aug 8, 2024 17:41:16 GMT
An incline lift would work well for Alperton! I wonder how TFL can make Colliers Wood & Tooting Broadway step-free? Not sure its that simple - at Greenford the one inclined lift goes from the ticket hall all the way to both platforms (island platform)
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 8, 2024 19:03:19 GMT
I wonder whether the LT Museum (or one of its storage areas) would welcome a genuine historic escalator? If not, maybe a railway museum elsewhere. The LT Museum already has an historic escalator, the remains of the helical one. A complete one is a different kettle of fish though. Probably it would have to remain a static exhibit as it might be expensive to maintain in working order. Keeping museum exhibits in working order is often very expensive; however generous donors do often have their favourite things. Perhaps a Billionaire from Wyoming with a pining for escalators (the state has a grand total of two pairs of escalators*) might be prepared to establish a museum? *See here, here and here.
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Post by starlight73 on Aug 8, 2024 20:07:34 GMT
An incline lift would work well for Alperton! I wonder how TFL can make Colliers Wood & Tooting Broadway step-free? Sorry to sound boring but - the other platform at Alperton would need a normal lift … would it be simpler for them to just ‘drop in’ the design used at other stations like Ickenham / Amersham - which is 2 traditional lifts and a footbridge I seem to remember reading there is/was a shortage of incline lift technicians in the UK? (Bur could be wrong)
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 8, 2024 20:39:21 GMT
I wonder whether the LT Museum (or one of its storage areas) would welcome a genuine historic escalator? If not, maybe a railway museum elsewhere. The LT Museum already has an historic escalator, the remains of the helical one. A complete one is a different kettle of fish though. It's a unique escalator as it was the only one of its kind used on the Underground, but that's more because it came second hand from the Festival of Britain. It's not a 'normal' underground escalator, per se.
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Post by brigham on Aug 9, 2024 7:24:14 GMT
It's historically significant for two reasons, then.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 10, 2024 11:31:24 GMT
Eastcote I suspect will be something similar to Ickenham - lifts further down the platform linked by a second footbridge and a high-level walkway to the ticket office.
Arnos Grove will be trickier, given that the Grade II* listing includes the ticket hall and platform structures so whatever is done will need to be done sympathetically. The simplest option would likely be to replace part of each staircase to that platforms with a lift, but this would have significant implications for capacity (posisbly to show-stopping extent) and would need careful design from a heritage perspective. Another option might be to build a second ticket hall on the opposite side of the road that links to the platforms directly via a pair of lifts. However operationally that will probably be seen as far from ideal given that it would significantly increase the complexity of managing the station and increase staffing needs (although I don't know how significantly). A high level walkway to a pair of lifts at the very north end of the platforms is a third option, but I don't know if there is space at platform level or how easy it would be to connect this into the existing ticket hall in a heritage-compatible way.
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gefw
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Post by gefw on Aug 12, 2024 11:57:16 GMT
Eastcote I suspect will be something similar to Ickenham - lifts further down the platform linked by a second footbridge and a high-level walkway to the ticket office. I think Eastcote (being a Holden design station) will also require a sympathetic solution. perhaps lifts to the side each of the existing stair cases.with short walkways (like the one from street level at Harrow)
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Post by rapidtransitman on Aug 12, 2024 20:13:13 GMT
The LT Museum already has an historic escalator, the remains of the helical one. A complete one is a different kettle of fish though. It's a unique escalator as it was the only one of its kind used on the Underground, but that's more because it came second hand from the Festival of Britain. It's not a 'normal' underground escalator, per se. There's a deep dive on the helical/spiral escalator that _may have_ operated at Holloway Road Tube station here www.londonreconnections.com/2021/a-deeper-look-at-the-tubes-spiral-escalator/. Newspapers of the time report different versions of whether it was put into operation or not.
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Aug 24, 2024 13:57:23 GMT
… Arnos Grove will be trickier, given that the Grade II* listing includes the ticket hall and platform structures so whatever is done will need to be done sympathetically. The simplest option would likely be to replace part of each staircase to that platforms with a lift, but this would have significant implications for capacity (posisbly to show-stopping extent) and would need careful design from a heritage perspective. Another option might be to build a second ticket hall on the opposite side of the road that links to the platforms directly via a pair of lifts. However operationally that will probably be seen as far from ideal given that it would significantly increase the complexity of managing the station and increase staffing needs (although I don't know how significantly). A high level walkway to a pair of lifts at the very north end of the platforms is a third option, but I don't know if there is space at platform level or how easy it would be to connect this into the existing ticket hall in a heritage-compatible way. If I’m not mistaken, what adds to the difficulty is that before reaching the platform stairwell, there’s already a flight of steps from the ticket hall. An educated prediction would be to hack parts of the existing wall, kind of like Sudbury Hill for the heritage footbridge but to a greater extent which would branch out near the carpark. Then it would stop at the middle of the platforms which then holes would be punched carefully, just like Harrow-on-the-Hill. Not very conservative but that seems like the only option. I think Eastcote (being a Holden design station) will also require a sympathetic solution. perhaps lifts to the side each of the existing stair cases.with short walkways (like the one from street level at Harrow) As for Eastcote, if this were to happen, there’s a chance selective door operation might need to be done on the eastbound platform for safety clearance. The westbound SDO might extend to 2? Well I hope that there are no line closures for the substandard* works at Leyton. *does not reinstate an entrance for people who live near the eastern end of the station Honestly with so much bottleneck I witness from overcrowding videos, the old entrance should’ve been redone. Even doing a Bromley-by-Bow wouldn’t be too bad
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Aug 24, 2024 14:21:53 GMT
Just had a read of the report of the report and I found it quite interesting: I think Waterloo & Highbury & Islington definitely should become fully step-free by re-equipping the disused lift shafts. It would help with growing capacity. I wonder if there are any other stations with disused lift shafts that can be put back into service. I’m intrigued to know how the likes of Archway, Clapham South, East Putney, Ladbroke Grove, Stockwell & Wood Green would have got step-free access. Maybe Liverpool Street can be become step-free during the rebuild of the Mainline station? Roding Valley is technically step-free, so don’t know what improvements they were planning there. And how on earth would they have made Kennington & Queensway become step-free given that lifts are the only way down to the platforms? Maybe install escalators? An opportunity was missed at Archway when there was redevelopment. To be fair it may have been costly due to the narrow width of the platforms
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gefw
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Post by gefw on Aug 25, 2024 12:57:00 GMT
I think Eastcote (being a Holden design station) will also require a sympathetic solution. perhaps lifts to the side each of the existing stair cases.with short walkways (like the one from street level at Harrow) As for Eastcote, if this were to happen, there’s a chance selective door operation might need to be done on the eastbound platform for safety clearance. The westbound SDO might extend to 2? I agree there is not space for the lift tower on the existing platform - it's not as wide as Sudbury Hill. I was thinking of the lift towers being behind the existing walls of the stairs/ back walls of the platform (on the embankment space)
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 26, 2024 12:01:42 GMT
An opportunity was also missed at Angel
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Aug 26, 2024 12:42:54 GMT
An opportunity was also missed at Angel Imagine if inclined lift ideas arrived sooner
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gefw
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Post by gefw on Aug 26, 2024 17:44:42 GMT
An opportunity was also missed at Angel Imagine if inclined lift ideas arrived sooner I suspect there aren't may cases where the escalator position (or stair capacity) could be given up - they may even be regretting doing so at Greenford. Doubt if this is acceptable at Alperton (with all the new housing development nearby)
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 27, 2024 2:47:09 GMT
At Angel, given they had to excavate the new escalator chamber it might have made economic sense to construct it wide enough to have an inclined escalator as well. Certainly it would have been considered at the design phase if done today. Of course the capacity would have been extremely poor given that a single journey would take ~90 seconds* plus boarding and alighting time so you'd be looking at around 6-7 minutes to get to the bottom/top if you just missed it. Also, either a second inlined lift or a conventional lift + more tunnelling would have been required to get to platform level so there is no guarantee it would be considered economic even if done today. *Based on the inclined lift at Liverpool Street travelling at the same speed as the adjacent escalator and this 2017 Londonist video giving the journey time on the escalators at Angel as 90 seconds.
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gefw
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Post by gefw on Aug 28, 2024 12:38:43 GMT
I would suggest that the strategy developed for the previous "stand alone" SFA schemes will be continued (unless serious issues have been experienced or lessons learnt) So the requirement will be to use vertical lifts from an existing partnered supplier/range (with doors on opposite sides) and prefabricated towers, walkways, supports etc. This obviously helps training and long term support. But may "blinker" the ideas for other more economic options.
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Post by jimbo on Sept 2, 2024 23:00:17 GMT
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gefw
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Post by gefw on Sept 3, 2024 7:32:41 GMT
Note the report highlights general shortfalls of facilities & capacity at this station - so not just SFA
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 3, 2024 10:10:56 GMT
At Upminster the only platform not to have a lift is number 6 the London Overground line to Romford.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 3, 2024 13:57:41 GMT
Given that the rest of Upminster, Romford and Emerson Park are all step-free, adding that one lift would open up more journeys than just the shuttle.
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Sept 3, 2024 15:36:26 GMT
Given that the rest of Upminster, Romford and Emerson Park are all step-free, adding that one lift would open up more journeys than just the shuttle. Definitely useful as an orbital connection
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 4, 2024 16:06:51 GMT
At Upminster the only platform not to have a lift is number 6 the London Overground line to Romford. wow - thats a very bad mistake I am astonished its being allowed ------------------------ btw: with Angel I recall discussion from years ago with it being suggested that the original station (which had lifts) should have been retained as it was far enough away to justify its continued existence plus (with the Kings Cross tragedy in mind) it would have been beneficial to have exits at each end of the station.
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Post by jimbo on Sept 4, 2024 17:33:41 GMT
It was at the same end of Angel platform, and did not reach platform level. Could it be done today? A lot of cost for a new lower lift shaft.
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 5, 2024 23:17:33 GMT
might still be cheaper than a brand new lift shaft!
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Post by imran on Sept 8, 2024 8:52:18 GMT
I can’t track down the actual report (“unlocking London for all, 2002”). But for anyone who needs it: I did find this (scroll down), it has a map from that report with 2002’s planned step-free access (SFA). You asked up-thread about Liverpool Street. I think Central line SFA would be a big job as a new lift shaft would be needed. Possible if the station gets redeveloped ( ). Interestingly, the map linked above has proposals for SFA on the Morden branch of the Northern line - Stockwell, Balham and Tooting Broadway. However, TfL are now back to the drawing board with that. Given Zone 1 only had SFA to the Jubilee line extension back then, we’ve come a long way! I just realised on the report that half of the stations on the eastern end Central Line could have been step-free by now! I wonder how Loughton, Gants Hill & Leytonstone would have become step-free?
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Post by Chris L on Sept 8, 2024 9:27:13 GMT
Just had a read of the report of the report and I found it quite interesting: I think Waterloo & Highbury & Islington definitely should become fully step-free by re-equipping the disused lift shafts. It would help with growing capacity. I wonder if there are any other stations with disused lift shafts that can be put back into service. I’m intrigued to know how the likes of Archway, Clapham South, East Putney, Ladbroke Grove, Stockwell & Wood Green would have got step-free access. Maybe Liverpool Street can be become step-free during the rebuild of the Mainline station? Roding Valley is technically step-free, so don’t know what improvements they were planning there. And how on earth would they have made Kennington & Queensway become step-free given that lifts are the only way down to the platforms? Maybe install escalators? An opportunity was missed at Archway when there was redevelopment. To be fair it may have been costly due to the narrow width of the platforms Old lift shafts at stations never reached platform level.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 8, 2024 10:23:11 GMT
Old lift shafts at stations never reached platform level. There were exceptions: Earl’s Court, South Kensington
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vincenture
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Post by vincenture on Sept 10, 2024 17:34:56 GMT
Old lift shafts at stations never reached platform level. Step-free access projects need not be all lifts reaching the platform level immediately. What I was implying is that for example at Archway, when there was redevelopment at surface level, there was opportunity to shift things around and add lifts.
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Post by starlight73 on Sept 11, 2024 11:53:43 GMT
Ideally, yes you'd think opportunities to enable future step-free access would be taken. I suppose an issue is that TfL do not have spare cash floating around, so if they have to choose between spending on a step-free scheme that can be delivered, and enabling works for a hypothetical future step-free scheme, they'll go for the former.
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