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Post by stapler on Oct 27, 2020 8:20:14 GMT
And also the bus spent all its time among vehicles with filthy exhausts (whose gases included lead at the time) as opposed to the railway stock. But actually, I thought the 62TS cars, for example, looked tawdry from the mid-60s onwards. The 30 y-o "corporate livery" must be due for a rethink soon? Artist's impressions of the new Picc trains give it a tweak - the blue lower stripe becomes a thinner waist line incorporating roundel bar and car numbers, shown here . Bad news All or mostly white trains invariably look dirty.... |
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Post by brigham on Oct 27, 2020 8:33:08 GMT
...The 'insul-fish' vans being the prime example.
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Post by Chris L on Oct 27, 2020 10:29:55 GMT
Artist's impressions of the new Picc trains give it a tweak - the blue lower stripe becomes a thinner waist line incorporating roundel bar and car numbers, shown here . Bad news All or mostly white trains invariably look dirty.... that was the reason for having the blue lower panels. The artist's impression does not mean it is the accepted livery. |
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Post by jimbo on Oct 27, 2020 11:17:03 GMT
Bad news All or mostly white trains invariably look dirty.... that was the reason for having the blue lower panels. The artist's impression does not mean it is the accepted livery. Agreed, although it has been used in all illustrations since this stock was first envisaged near 10 years back. |
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Post by Chris M on Oct 27, 2020 12:28:43 GMT
Why? TfL don't currently have the money to fix things that are broken, let alone things that aren't. Merely because that's what railway companies do. For example: The Quint-arts had three liveries in their 32 years - varnished teak, Stratford mucky brown, and LMS red. The 305s had 3 in their 23 years, green, all over rail blue, and blue and grey. The 315s had about half a dozen in their 37 years, blue/grey, NSE, First, WAGN, One,GA and Overground. Paint and vinyl is a good way of convincing the public you're making improvements And? Almost all of your examples are instances of livery changes when the operator changes or there was a major rebranding exercise. Neither apply here, especially as rebranding exercises don't happen when the organisation is cap-in-hand to avoid bankruptcy. |
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Post by stapler on Oct 27, 2020 21:55:20 GMT
As was the case in almost every case quoted above. Who knows what TFL will become in years to come? Why should the 1990 "corporate livery" last for ever? Not that I especially dislike it. It was a great improvement on unpainted, stained and graffitised aluminium. And some liveries (eg Routemasters in their dotage, which was like dressing up a grandma in a miniskirt, or NSE corporate, or jaffa-cake or anything dreamed up by Stagecoach were IMO abominable!
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Post by Chris M on Oct 27, 2020 21:58:30 GMT
There is no reason the current livery should last forever, but equally if it is going to change now is really not the time to do it.
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Post by MoreToJack on Oct 27, 2020 22:25:58 GMT
The big difference between the LUL livery and those listed above is that it’s relatively timeless, and looks as fresh and modern today as it did when first unveiled. As much as I personally like NSE, for instance, it has not aged well.
Back to the D stock please folks; if anyone wants to chat more on corporate livery please create a new thread and we will make any merges as appropriate.
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Post by stapler on Oct 28, 2020 8:01:07 GMT
Personally, I thought the corporate livery, when applied to the D78s on refurbishment, looked very well, 100% improvement....even more so the duo-tone green interior treatment which replaced harsh orange and brown. I never liked using the D78s (which I did every day) till then, whereupon they became quite a favourite. Except in hot weather!
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Post by t697 on Oct 28, 2020 11:21:48 GMT
Personally, I thought the corporate livery, when applied to the D78s on refurbishment, looked very well, 100% improvement....even more so the duo-tone green interior treatment which replaced harsh orange and brown. I never liked using the D78s (which I did every day) till then, whereupon they became quite a favourite. Except in hot weather! Oops, the difficulty of colour matching. There was only supposed to be one green paint shade in the refurb decor! |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 28, 2020 11:44:58 GMT
The first three D Stock returned from refurbishment were in slightly different livery to the rest and were subsequently modified.
They didn’t have the white stripe on blue background, either side of the doors.
Oddly, 1972 and 1973 Stock have retained the un-modified livery
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Post by t697 on Oct 28, 2020 17:54:02 GMT
The first three D Stock returned from refurbishment were in slightly different livery to the rest and were subsequently modified. They didn’t have the white stripe on blue background, either side of the doors. Oddly, 1972 and 1973 Stock have retained the un-modified livery The LU livery standard changed after the D78 Refurb work started, incorporating that little white stripe. The reasoning was that it improved contrast between door and bodyside right down to the floor for RVAR compliance. Quite pricey to retro add that stripe was! 72TS and 73TS weren't having refurbs under the PPP so didn't get the change. |
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Post by metman on Oct 28, 2020 19:24:56 GMT
I think the white strip by the doors is horrible but absolutely understand the reasons for it.
Thanks interestingly the 1973 stock had the door plates painted yellow but the 1972 stock hasn’t.
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Post by Chris W on Oct 28, 2020 21:21:37 GMT
The first three D Stock returned from refurbishment were in slightly different livery to the rest and were subsequently modified. They didn’t have the white stripe on blue background, either side of the doors. Oddly, 1972 and 1973 Stock have retained the un-modified livery The LU livery standard changed after the D78 Refurb work started, incorporating that little white stripe. The reasoning was that it improved contrast between door and bodyside right down to the floor for RVAR compliance. Quite pricey to retro add that stripe was! 72TS and 73TS weren't having refurbs under the PPP so didn't get the change. Here's DM 7002, captured as District Dave members congregated for the very first time at Earls Court on Saturday 20 August 2005...
www.flickr.com/photos/cjw2/16402998701/in/album-72157650143825107/ |
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Post by t697 on Oct 28, 2020 22:39:15 GMT
The LU livery standard changed after the D78 Refurb work started, incorporating that little white stripe. The reasoning was that it improved contrast between door and bodyside right down to the floor for RVAR compliance. Quite pricey to retro add that stripe was! 72TS and 73TS weren't having refurbs under the PPP so didn't get the change. Here's DM 7002, captured as District Dave members congregated for the very first time at Earls Court on Saturday 20 August 2005... www.flickr.com/photos/cjw2/16402998701/in/album-72157650143825107/Ah, an early shot indeed. Another rare detail in that picture is the end destination display showing High Street Kensington spelt out in full. The dot matrix font was then changed to be closer to New Johnston. A compromise to achieve that as many characters were a little wider was that we were allowed to show High St Kensington, to make it fit the available screen. And returning to the postulated light grey panel paint, no 'work arising' was raised on refurb for any car being found to arrive for refurb and needing light grey paint to be stripped! There were two units with the roofs painted with some thick gungy paint in a largely unsuccessful attempt at reducing roof panel joint leaks. These were left on refurb and not repainted with the standard roof treatment on refurb, ironically, grey paint! |
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 31, 2020 15:29:11 GMT
Why? TfL don't currently have the money to fix things that are broken, let alone things that aren't. Merely because that's what railway companies do. For example: The Quint-arts had three liveries in their 32 years - varnished teak, Stratford mucky brown, and LMS red. The 305s had 3 in their 23 years, green, all over rail blue, and blue and grey. The 315s had about half a dozen in their 37 years, blue/grey, NSE, First, WAGN, One,GA and Overground. Paint and vinyl is a good way of convincing the public you're making improvements The remaining 315's are in TfL Rail livery - making 8 liveries in total. Plus there has been at least one all-over advertising livery. Its a shame that one of the TfL Rail trains cannot have some coaches painted in partial other liveries, similar to what the Tyne & Wear Metro have done to one Metrocar. (The need for contrasting door liveries makes full train repaints unworkable - unless one wishes to create what amounts to a brand new livery - as on 313 201!) Returning to the D stock, I note the reference to thin light grey additions over the blue stripe next to the doors. I always *thought* that something had changed but until now never found evidence to prove that this was so. re: the new thin blue line livery, I would prefer it did not happen but perhaps it will only be for brand new trains - not existing fleets? If this new livery is introduced on the new trains then maybe in 20 years from now we will have someone trying to convince everyone that the trains originally had a blue skirt but it was covered over with light grey paint or vinyl wrap? (a new twist on the scenario which led to me creating this thread in the first place!) |
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Post by Chris W on Nov 3, 2020 22:37:31 GMT
Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons... here's a half grey, half lighter DM car... literally...
IMO, as a result of graffiti cleaning...!! 
[ThinksOutLoud]I wonder if this is the cause of the confusion[/StopsThinkingFullStop]   |
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