Any ideas?

[whistlekiller2000]

A mate of mine took these two pictures from his flat in Leicester earlier today. He’d like to know what they are as although a train buff isn’t clued up on TfL.

[class411]

The top one looks like a carriage chassis with the wheeled axles on top.

The bottom one looks like a works wagon.


Just blind speculation, though.

[rincew1nd]

Definitely some kind of waggonry. Possibly arrived at Immingham/Grimsby and heading for London?

[Dstock7080]

First of 73 new wagons for LU arrived from China by ship to Southampton.
Sent for testing on GCR Great Central Railway.

www.railwaygazette.com/modes/london-underground-orders-chinese-wagons/44262.article

UK: Transport for London has awarded the CRRC Shandong subsidiary of Chinese rolling stock conglomerate CRRC a contract to supply wagons to support track renewal and maintenance activities on the London Underground network.

The order confirmed by CRRC on March 23 2017 includes 66 open wagons and five flatbed wagons, along with the provision of technical support. It is the first rolling stock contract that CRRC has won from a European metro operator.

In June 2016 TfL approved funding of £11·5m for the direct purchase of 86 new wagons to replace 99 existing engineering wagons. CRRC increased its price as a result of exchange rate changes after the EU referendum, and while its bid was still the most economically advantageous TfL reduced the order to 71 wagons as a result. A subsequent review of TfL’s requirements has resulted in a revised future fleet size of 185 wagons.

LU currently has a fleet of 197 wagons of 11 types for transporting materials and waste. The last significant investment in this fleet was in the early 1980s, and the vehicles are now approaching the end of their lives. In addition, many are main line designs and not optimised use on the London Underground network. The existing open wagons for carrying spoil and ballast are not well-suited for use with modern road-rail excavators, and their replacement with an optimised design is expected to increase efficiency.

The Renewals & Engineering Fleet Team are procuring 71 new wagons from CRRC, the world’s largest rolling stock manufacturer based in China, which will be replacing life-expired wagons. These wagons will boost our track renewal and maintenance productivity through: the provision of increased haulage capacity; greater flexibility of carrying loads; reduced maintenance and operational costs; and improved running performance compared to our existing engineering fleet. They will also have the unique capability of travelling on both LU and Network Rail infrastructure, widening their potential to collect and deliver materials from most parts of the UK rail network. The project is fast approaching end of Detailed Design, and is expecting delivery of 7 pre-production wagons around December 2019. Once we have fully tested these wagons, the full fleet delivery will take place at the back end of 2020.

[DWS]

Wagons built by Chinese and put on a ship which takes about two months to reach the UK.
One of the wagons is numbered BW02 which stands for Ballast Wagon .
After testing will be sent by road to Ruislip Depot.

[DWS]

Will the old wagons be offered for sale .

[whistlekiller2000]

Nov 2, 2020 13:38:44 GMT Dstock7080 said:

First of 73 new wagons for LU arrived from China by ship to Southampton.
Sent for testing on GCR Great Central Railway.

www.railwaygazette.com/modes/london-underground-orders-chinese-wagons/44262.article

UK: Transport for London has awarded the CRRC Shandong subsidiary of Chinese rolling stock conglomerate CRRC a contract to supply wagons to support track renewal and maintenance activities on the London Underground network.

The order confirmed by CRRC on March 23 2017 includes 66 open wagons and five flatbed wagons, along with the provision of technical support. It is the first rolling stock contract that CRRC has won from a European metro operator.

In June 2016 TfL approved funding of £11·5m for the direct purchase of 86 new wagons to replace 99 existing engineering wagons. CRRC increased its price as a result of exchange rate changes after the EU referendum, and while its bid was still the most economically advantageous TfL reduced the order to 71 wagons as a result. A subsequent review of TfL’s requirements has resulted in a revised future fleet size of 185 wagons.

LU currently has a fleet of 197 wagons of 11 types for transporting materials and waste. The last significant investment in this fleet was in the early 1980s, and the vehicles are now approaching the end of their lives. In addition, many are main line designs and not optimised use on the London Underground network. The existing open wagons for carrying spoil and ballast are not well-suited for use with modern road-rail excavators, and their replacement with an optimised design is expected to increase efficiency.

The Renewals & Engineering Fleet Team are procuring 71 new wagons from CRRC, the world’s largest rolling stock manufacturer based in China, which will be replacing life-expired wagons. These wagons will boost our track renewal and maintenance productivity through: the provision of increased haulage capacity; greater flexibility of carrying loads; reduced maintenance and operational costs; and improved running performance compared to our existing engineering fleet. They will also have the unique capability of travelling on both LU and Network Rail infrastructure, widening their potential to collect and deliver materials from most parts of the UK rail network. The project is fast approaching end of Detailed Design, and is expecting delivery of 7 pre-production wagons around December 2019. Once we have fully tested these wagons, the full fleet delivery will take place at the back end of 2020.

Nov 2, 2020 13:52:46 GMT DWS said:

Wagons built by Chinese and put on a ship which takes about two months to reach the UK.
One of the wagons is numbered BW02 which stands for Ballast Wagon .
After testing will be sent by road to Ruislip Depot.

Cheers. He says thank you very much! 

[Tom]

Nov 2, 2020 13:55:54 GMT DWS said:

Will the old wagons be offered for sale .

I'm not sure anyone will want them!

[zbang]

Nov 2, 2020 21:28:34 GMT Tom said:

Nov 2, 2020 13:55:54 GMT DWS said:

Will the old wagons be offered for sale .

I'm not sure anyone will want them!

The knackers would (the scrap still has value).

[brigham]

Is it just people like me, who live near Shildon, who find this whole thing obscene?

[rincew1nd]

There are many things I find obscene, LUL buying new waggonry is not one of them.

[philthetube]

Nov 3, 2020 8:50:47 GMT brigham said:

Is it just people like me, who live near Shildon, who find this whole thing obscene?

Obscene because they come from China, or because there are new wagons being bought.

[cudsn15]

If the Chinese were the most cost effective, including all the delivery/transport costs then I can't see any problem apart from a slight environmental concern over the distance travelled to get them here.

This is what being part of a global marketplace means. If the UK can not compete on price it needs to find alternative industries it can be competitive in. I believe we are doing rather well in Off shore windfarm technology at the moment...

[brigham]

If you were to include the human cost, you might find the balance not so favourable.

We all know the most cost-effective way of picking cotton in a global environment, don't we?

[norbitonflyer]

Shildon wagon works closed over 35 years ago, but trains are still being built at a new factory, just three miles down the line. Given the volumes involved, I doubt that factory would have had the capacity to build those wagons any time soon.

[rincew1nd]

Nov 3, 2020 18:55:14 GMT norbitonflyer said:

Shildon wagon works closed over 35 years ago, but trains are still being built at a new factory, just three miles down the line. Given the volumes involved, I doubt that factory would have had the capacity to build those wagons any time soon.

Don't Hitachi just assemble trains there? AIUI the bodyshells are actually made in Japan and Italy.

The only firm currently building trains in the UK is Bombardier in Derby - who are busy making various Aventra variants.

[t697]

Nov 3, 2020 18:58:29 GMT rincew1nd said:

Nov 3, 2020 18:55:14 GMT norbitonflyer said:

Shildon wagon works closed over 35 years ago, but trains are still being built at a new factory, just three miles down the line. Given the volumes involved, I doubt that factory would have had the capacity to build those wagons any time soon.

Don't Hitachi just assemble trains there? AIUI the bodyshells are actually made in Japan and Italy.

The only firm currently building trains in the UK is Bombardier in Derby - who are busy making various Aventra variants.

WH Davis is still in business building rail wagons in the UK I believe.

[brigham]

WH Davis is still in business building rail wagons in the UK.

This is yet another example of buying-in things that we build, without any concern or responsibility for the well-being of future generations.

It turns out that we are doing it on a far wider scale than anyone could believe possible. The much-vaunted 'coal free electricity' week involved importing electricity!

At least the grave is environmentally friendly.

[class411]

Nov 4, 2020 8:33:06 GMT brigham said:

WH Davis is still in business building rail wagons in the UK.

This is yet another example of buying-in things that we build, without any concern or responsibility for the well-being of future generations.

It has been generally assumed by politicians of all colours in just about all countries, the free trade is a good thing.

The world would be a very different thing without it - whether for better or worse is a matter for each to decide for her or himself. It would be incredibly difficult to work out where we'd be now without the free trade we have had, but it would certainly be a lot farther back in terms of technical developments in just about every field, including all those impacting on health and environmental damage.

The much-vaunted 'coal free electricity' week involved importing electricity!

Having load levelling electricity import/export arrangements is far more environmentally friendly than all countries involved building the extra power stations they would otherwise need for peak demand.

At least the grave is environmentally friendly.

So long as you don't have a lead lined coffin!

[brigham]

Oh!

That makes it all right, then!

[class411]

Nov 4, 2020 9:43:54 GMT brigham said:

Oh!

That makes it all right, then!

What would make what alright?

Without some more specific context your post is meaningless.

[brigham]

Sorry, that was a glib sarcastic rejoiner, and only suitable for YouTube. I'm prone to it, but I usually manage to spot it before I press 'reply'.

What I meant was, a series of carefully-evasive answers couched in politico-economic jargon doesn't justify irresponsible disregard for one's fellows.

If it did, then Jim Crow would still be picking cotton, and the rest of us would be happily wearing it.

Even if you completely ignore the human cost, the figures still don't add up. Buying from China doesn't pay the dole for the people whose jobs you have thrown away. The people of this country do that. IF you factored that in, and IF you insisted that the equivalent Chinese workers were paid at the same rate, and worked in the same conditions as ours, then the true situation would emerge.

During the ROVER scandal, it was revealed in the Trade Press that Chinese car workers get the equivalent of our Minimum Wage.

BUT, they get it per DAY, not per HOUR.

[rincew1nd]

Admin comment

This is getting a bit political, can we stick to waggonry please?

[class411]

Nov 4, 2020 17:50:55 GMT brigham said:

What I meant was, a series of carefully-evasive answers couched in politico-economic jargon doesn't justify irresponsible disregard for one's fellows.

The problems are not political, they are economic and logistical.

The politicians have to play within those limits.

And it's not a matter of being evasive. Each person has to decide for themselves whether they would have preferred that we were years behind our current position in various ways in order to protect local manufacturing and crafts. You can't (or, at least it's very difficult to) just change the odd bits you don't like. If you want to scrap free trade, you have to accept that a lot of good things that happen will disappear along with the bad.

[rincew1nd]

Nov 4, 2020 18:12:25 GMT rincew1nd said:

Admin comment

This is getting a bit political, can we stick to waggonry please?

I'm assuming class411 wrote their post whilst I was writing mine.

class411 has confirmed they were writing and editing their post whilst I wrote my post in red, I'm happy to let it stand.

Now then, back to waggonry.

[brigham]

The problem is that we live in a society based on consumerist greed.

The fact that it is cheaper to ship railway wagons half-way around the world than to build them on-site ought to tell us that something is wrong.

Trouble is, we don't want to hear it. It makes us feel uneasy; and we don't want that.

[DWS]

Any one know when the next shipment of Wagons is due ?

[class411]

Nov 4, 2020 18:42:48 GMT rincew1nd said:

Nov 4, 2020 18:12:25 GMT rincew1nd said:

Admin comment

This is getting a bit political, can we stick to waggonry please?

I'm assuming class411 wrote their post whilst I was writing mine. Back to waggonry.

Yes, I've PM'd you to apologise.

After I wrote the PM I realised it looks even worse than I thought as the 'it's not politics' looks as if it's a direct contradiction of what you said.

I'm a bit out of synch with things at the moment because I'm in the middle of doing something rather complicated*, and snatching the odd moment here.


* no, not walking and chewing gum.

[jimbo]

Nov 4, 2020 19:09:11 GMT DWS said:

Any one know when the next shipment of Wagons is due ?

I believe these are the pre-production samples for full testing before they proceed with the full production run, so could be some time!

[metman]

That’s exactly what I’d heard too. They are pre-production samples and look quite smart.