S7 on the Met?

[jimbo]

The S8 can't operate on the District since it is too long for the platforms, and not easy to shorten. But why does S7 operate empty north of Baker Street? If an incident disabled some S8 trains for a period of time, could some S7 be transferred to fill the gap?

[Dstock7080]

One train daily (M-Sat Circle, Sun H&C) starts/finishes at Neasden depot, running empty to/from Baker Street, northbound to Wembley Park then into depot.
There are also regular empty Stock swapping from Barking sidings to/from Neasden done during midday period.

I always understood that Neasden can undertake some work that neither Ealing or Upminster can’t?
It also provided a delivery path after commissioning when trains were delivered.

[rincew1nd]

May 16, 2021 4:09:04 GMT jimbo said:

But why does S7 operate empty north of Baker Street?

I don't know for sure, but I suspect it will be linked to something to do with train operator agreements.

[Chris L]

May 16, 2021 10:30:52 GMT rincew1nd said:

May 16, 2021 4:09:04 GMT jimbo said:

But why does S7 operate empty north of Baker Street?

I don't know for sure, but I suspect it will be linked to something to do with train operator agreements.

Back in the day C stock used to run in service to/from Neasden in early mornings and late nights and  stop on the fast line platforms where the ticket hall stairs have been closed off.

If the current depot runs are on the fast lines this would explain why they don't run in service.

[metman]

The C stock also called at the Bakerloo/Jubilee line platforms too which is no longer possible. It must be said that the service frequency was much less than it is now so those additional services were welcome.

[firestorm]

May 16, 2021 6:47:49 GMT Dstock7080 said:

I always understood that Neasden can undertake some work that neither Ealing or Upminster can’t?

This is correct, from observation the test train operators take these trains to and from the depots running under the service number in the 7xx's. 

[MoreToJack]

May 16, 2021 6:47:49 GMT Dstock7080 said:

One train daily (M-Sat Circle, Sun H&C) starts/finishes at Neasden depot, running empty to/from Baker Street, northbound to Wembley Park then into depot.

This train in fact extends to Harrow-on-the-Hill (via the northbound fast), reverses via the siding, and then runs empty to Neasden via the southbound fast.

[jimbo]

May 16, 2021 4:09:04 GMT jimbo said:

The S8 can't operate on the District since it is too long for the platforms, and not easy to shorten. But why does S7 operate empty north of Baker Street? If an incident disabled some S8 trains for a period of time, could some S7 be transferred to fill the gap?

I had something in mind like a bank slip that trapped the Uxbridge stablers for near a week. Could some S7 be borrowed to boost service on the line, given staff are trained on the same type? S7 is officially only allowed empty on those routes for some reason.

[Colin]

They might be the same train, but they're not the same length.

When an S stock "docks" at a given platform it is given information like which station the train is at, which side to enable the passenger doors, whether any doors need to be cut out, etc. I doubt any of the Met platforms have been set up to give an S7 the information it requires for passenger operation.

Then you want to borrow some S7's? So where are they coming from then? How many spare S7's do you think there are?

Granted you could probably nick a few off the Circle, District and H&C lines without causing too many issues on any one line, but you have to realise there is an impact on three other lines by borrowing trains to maintain the service on the one line.

[t697]

Pre-ATC,there is/was full facility for S7 to operate Baker St to Harrow and back, using platform 4, the siding and platform 5 at Harrow. Beyond that they could proceed OK using the S8 stop marks and facilities (CSDE and OPO CCTV). Pre-ATC the CSDE for S8 stops also allows S7, but not vice-versa so an S8 doesn't get CSDE at a platform that's too short. At the termini though, Uxbridge, Watford etc or intermediate reversing sites there isn't a CSDE beacon at the S7 south end so any need to re-open at departure time is an issue. I seem to recall those positions were signal sighted though.
Train performance would still be the 'interrunning' S7 level so capped to around 45mi/h, rather slow for the Met.

With ATC the situation is different. With the operating procedures described already in the thread, there is no planned passenger service north of Baker St and the ATC does not provide CSDE to an S7 train on the Met from Finchley Road onwards. I understand the ATC does allow S7 to travel on the Met, just not to open its doors.