Tunnel cleaning train

[grumpycat]

Apologies if there is already a thread about this but 1. What happened to the old cleaning train and 2. Is there a new tunnel cleaning train?

[DWS]

1 It was scrapped
2 . New one built but not delivered.

[Chris L]

Tunnels are being cleaned by operatives with back pack vacuum cleaners.

Less risk of damage to cables and equipment.

Maintaining a steady very low speed was the problem with the tunnel cleaning train.

[Tom]

I understand the old one used a hydraulic system to maintain a low speed in the tunnels which wouldn't be permitted today because of the fire hazards presented by hydraulic fluid.
When it came to the fireproofing of the new train, I heard that it would be very difficult to do and the only material which would be suitable would be Asbestos, which is now of course banned for H&S reasons.

[DWS]

I recall that a new Tunnel Cleaning train was being built I think is was from Germany, what happened to it ?

[zbang]

May 31, 2021 22:58:07 GMT Tom said:

I understand the old one used a hydraulic system to maintain a low speed in the tunnels which wouldn't be permitted today because of the fire hazards presented by hydraulic fluid.

There have been water-based hydraulic fluids for decades, specifically to avoid fire risks (we used quite a lot of it at the steel mill where I worked in the 1990s). Whether the old train's system was compatible with those fluids is another question, IIRC the seals are somewhat different (otherwise, they behave identically).

[brigham]

Hydraulic fluid was originally 'water-based'.
There's a clue in the name!

[class411]

Probably a stupid question, but, why not use a gear box?

If you can fit some sort of hydraulic system, surely there would be room for one.

[rincew1nd]

Difficult to get slow speed control with a manual gearbox.

[John Tuthill]

Jun 2, 2021 3:54:56 GMT zbang said:

May 31, 2021 22:58:07 GMT Tom said:

I understand the old one used a hydraulic system to maintain a low speed in the tunnels which wouldn't be permitted today because of the fire hazards presented by hydraulic fluid.

There have been water-based hydraulic fluids for decades, specifically to avoid fire risks (we used quite a lot of it at the steel mill where I worked in the 1990s). Whether the old train's system was compatible with those fluids is another question, IIRC the seals are somewhat different (otherwise, they behave identically).

As an aside, check out the 'London Hydraulic Power Company.' They use to pump water around London to the theatres to raise and lower safety curtains etc., and other things beside. When they closed down in the 1970s, their 'pipe system' was used as a ready made conduit system for data cables etc. Their main plant used to be on the Grosvenor Road, just by the bend before it comes to Vauxhall Bridge.

[zbang]

You can still see LHC valve boxes in the pavements around the area (also www.hevac-heritage.org/electronic_books/hydraulic_power/1-london_hydraulic_power_co.pdf).

BTW, yes, water was first used, but has problems such as it doesn't lubricate anything and it boils at only 100deg, thus the switch to oils. (The direct-action hydraulic elevator was invented at the college I attended, although sometime before I was there.)

[fish7373]

May 31, 2021 0:21:00 GMT grumpycat said:

Apologies if there is already a thread about this but 1. What happened to the old cleaning train and 2. Is there a new tunnel cleaning train?

cleanair.london/app/uploads/CAL-226-Tunnel-cleaning-train_FOI-EIR-July-2012.pdf   They scrapped the MPU  that was to tow it around 

[DWS]

Who was going to build the New Tunnel Cleaning Unit ?
Have MPU been scraped and when was that ?

[Dstock7080]

Jun 2, 2021 17:43:06 GMT DWS said:

Have MPU been scraped and when was that ?

May 2019 at Eastleigh

[fish7373]

From TFL and the Mayor of London Meeting www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/1652

[modeng2000]

Jun 2, 2021 16:04:27 GMT zbang said:

(also www.hevac-heritage.org/electronic_books/hydraulic_power/1-london_hydraulic_power_co.pdf).

The link does not work

[zbang]

Just checked, the link works, the proboards/viglink redirect may not; just copy/paste into the browser address bar.

[modeng2000]

Thanks for checking, ok now.
John

[towerman]

May 31, 2021 7:26:13 GMT DWS said:

1 It was scrapped
2 . New one built but not delivered.

It derailed on Network rail metals in the late 90s,was put in Stonebridge Pk & was put on low loaders to go away for scrap.I helped shunt individual cars with a 72TS unit to the short road at Stonebridge where they were winched onto the low loaders.

[DWS]

Jun 4, 2021 13:43:20 GMT towerman said:

May 31, 2021 7:26:13 GMT DWS said:

1 It was scrapped
2 . New one built but not delivered.

It derailed on Network rail metals in the late 90s,was put in Stonebridge Pk & was put on low loaders to go away for scrap.I helped shunt individual cars with a 72TS unit to the short road at Stonebridge where they were winched onto the low loaders.

Was this the New Tunnel Cleaning Unit ?

[MoreToJack]

No, the old one.

The new one was cancelled before build began.

[DWS]

Jun 4, 2021 16:39:16 GMT MoreToJack said:

No, the old one.

The new one was cancelled before build began.

Thanks do you know which Company was going to build the new Tunnel Cleaning Unit ?

[Chris W]

Jun 4, 2021 16:47:18 GMT DWS said:

Thanks do you know which Company was going to build the new Tunnel Cleaning Unit ?

It was due to have been built by Schörling Kommunal.

SOURCE: www.flickr.com/photos/cjw2/31084724641/in/album-72157675353413932/

[underover]

Asbestos was the reason for stopping the project. It had to potential to disturb asbestos, and with no effective method to ensure you get 100% of the dust, it was decided to scrap the idea. The MPU that was built to haul it went though a few ideas for other uses before it was stripped of spares for the Bakerloo line and then sent away for storage. Not sure if its actually gone for scrap yet or not.