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Post by jimbo on Jun 4, 2021 21:19:01 GMT
The Mayor’s Transport Strategy - Annual Update on Delivery presented to the TfL Board meeting - 9 June 2021 see at p.176 / 204 "We are planning schemes to deliver Step-free access at 20-30 stations over the next 25 years" which is only around one a year. Have they done all the easy ones? Also "Additional capacity and improved accessibility at Elephant & Castle, Paddington (Bakerloo ticket hall), Holborn and Oxford Circus". So Camden Town has been dropped after all these years? And what is coming to Oxford Circus? Haven't seen that mentioned before! |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jun 4, 2021 22:39:00 GMT
By improved accessibility at Oxford Circus could they mean facilitating step-free cross platform interchange between the Bakerloo and Victoria lines? The platform humps have already been installed on the Bakerloo platforms. This will unlock journey potential when the Bakerloo line gains its first fully step-free station at Paddington thanks to the Paddington Square development in 2022.
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Post by jimbo on Jun 5, 2021 0:53:08 GMT
We know that the schemes at Elephant & Castle, Paddington (Bakerloo ticket hall) and Holborn are much more than platform humps, so I feel that Oxford Circus must also be to include in such a list.
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Post by jimbo on Jun 5, 2021 20:10:26 GMT
The Mayor’s Transport Strategy - Annual Update on Delivery presented to the TfL Board meeting - 9 June 2021 see at p.176 / 204 "We are planning schemes to deliver Step-free access at 20-30 stations over the next 25 years" which is only around one a year. Have they done all the easy ones? ..... Table on p.156 / 204 shows 83 step-free LU stations now, or 31%, so we are promised 103-113 step-free stations by 2046, or 38%-42%; doesn't sound a great advance to me in a quarter century! |
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Post by Chris L on Jun 5, 2021 21:34:34 GMT
The Mayor’s Transport Strategy - Annual Update on Delivery presented to the TfL Board meeting - 9 June 2021 see at p.176 / 204 "We are planning schemes to deliver Step-free access at 20-30 stations over the next 25 years" which is only around one a year. Have they done all the easy ones? ..... Table on p.156 / 204 shows 83 step-free LU stations now, or 31%, so we are promised 103-113 step-free stations by 2046, or 38%-42%; doesn't sound a great advance to me in a quarter century! It is hardly surprising given the age of the system. Where stations opened with lifts they did not descend to platform level and would not be easy to rework if the shafts are still there. However, the step free work at Knightsbridge will make use of an old shaft. When escalators replaced lifts you have to move to another entrance to give an angled shaft. Angel is the best example. There is a chance that incline lifts may offer a solution. I have seen them working on the Crossrail site at Liverpool Street. However, they are slow. They might work at Oxford Circus at the expense of an escalator but could the station cope? |
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Post by jimbo on Jun 6, 2021 4:02:30 GMT
Oxford Circus had high speed lifts to the Central Line until the Victoria Line opened. They had three landings, street level in Argyle Street, ticket hall level, and near platform level. The shaft was used for materials supply to deep level works during PPP, and was to be refitted for passenger use, but this was lost in the PPP collapse. I wondered if the current proposal is similar to that for Holborn, with a new ticket hall beneath a new development somewhere to the north-east of the Circus, with new connections to the east end of the Central Line platforms, and to the interchange passage between the northbound and southbound platforms at the north end of the site. This would help spread platform loadings.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jun 16, 2021 13:53:30 GMT
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Post by jimbo on Jun 17, 2021 2:20:50 GMT
Is the four corner stair-wells the limit on station capacity, which will be overcome with two new wide stairwells in the middle of the road? Or is the station capacity limited by access down to the platforms from the ticket hall, which this doesn't appear to help?
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Post by Chris M on Jun 17, 2021 7:45:57 GMT
I think the current stairwells are one constraint on station capacity, but not the only one. The new stairs might allow more space for underground queuing by allowing arriving passengers to exit quicker, but it's not going to be a solution in and of itself.
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Post by piccboy on Jun 17, 2021 11:44:00 GMT
Is the four corner stair-wells the limit on station capacity, which will be overcome with two new wide stairwells in the middle of the road? Or is the station capacity limited by access down to the platforms from the ticket hall, which this doesn't appear to help? Oxford Circus main issue with station capacity is the short distance between the lower bank of escalators exit and the platform entrance on the lower circulation areas of the North and Southbound Bakerloo / Victoria lines. During Evening peak, as the Victoria line platforms get busier, it slows down how quickly customers can get onto the Platform and then starts backing up towards the escalators. Before it becomes dangerous, station control has to be initiated. |
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Post by Chris L on Jun 17, 2021 11:45:38 GMT
I think the current stairwells are one constraint on station capacity, but not the only one. The new stairs might allow more space for underground queuing by allowing arriving passengers to exit quicker, but it's not going to be a solution in and of itself. Exiting passengers are normally directed to the stairs in the old station building not those around the Circus. |
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Post by Chris M on Jun 17, 2021 13:23:32 GMT
Ah yes I'd forgotten that. So unless the new entrances allow a reorganisation for better optimised flows below ground (no idea if that's possible) then I don't see it making a big difference without other improvement works. As long as the new entrance doesn't impede future works of that nature though it might be better to build it now when the money is available so less needs to be found in future
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Post by alpinejohn on Jun 18, 2021 8:45:09 GMT
What is the mad rush to do this now?
Ok the Mayor appears keen to showcase his pedestrian vision - but even if erect a million signs - there will doubtless be plenty of cycle couriers, electric scooters and "exempt vehicles" hurtling through - unless of course Mayor Khan intends to construct a wall as part of his plans.
Meanwhile as I understand it, the extended revenue losses due to Covid, means that loads (and I mean loads) of businesses are struggling to stay solvent - which may well mean that even Oxford Street will see stores - large and small throwing in the towel in the face of web based competion operating from cheap warehouse premises. If you think High Streets look sad now, just wait until most landlords start chasing up deferred rent bills with interest.
If this financial malaise means that one or more of the "anchor" stores financially collapses, there is a good chance that a few years from now one of the property owners decides to cut their losses and tear down one of the Oxford Circus corner plot buildings and incorporate a modern station with ample circulation area within any redevelopment as condition of the project even if they have to retain existing facades.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 18, 2021 9:10:57 GMT
What is the mad rush to do this now? Ok the Mayor appears keen to showcase his pedestrian vision - but even if erect a million signs - there will doubtless be plenty of cycle couriers, electric scooters and "exempt vehicles" hurtling through - unless of course Mayor Khan intends to construct a wall as part of his plans. Oxford Circus part pedestrianisation is not a Mayor of London project, Westminster City Council |
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Post by Chris L on Jun 18, 2021 20:57:00 GMT
If this financial malaise means that one or more of the "anchor" stores financially collapses, there is a good chance that a few years from now one of the property owners decides to cut their losses and tear down one of the Oxford Circus corner plot buildings and incorporate a modern station with ample circulation area within any redevelopment as condition of the project even if they have to retain existing facades. A lot of stores in Oxford Street are currently empty or haven't re-opened. John Lewis are looking to re-purpose the upper floors of their flagship store. Landlords are looking for short term tenants for pop up businesses starting at just one day. You want a completely new entrance with sets of escalators to reach the lower concourses from a different starting point. Ideally these should have two flights each that double back to allow lifts in a shaft between them. |
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Post by rsdworker on Jun 19, 2021 13:11:39 GMT
or landlords could redevelop big stores in new apartments and smaller units for shop or have green space where people could hangout also having those could create lift areas to station example oxford cirius could have lifts to and fro centreal line via new space that used be shops
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Post by jimbo on Jul 21, 2021 20:34:29 GMT
The highlights page 18 of the 20/21 TfL Annual Report states "Major Tube station upgrades including at Holborn, Elephant & Castle, Camden Town, Colindale and Oxford Circus. So Camden Town returns to the list!
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Post by DWS on Jul 22, 2021 8:43:53 GMT
The highlights page 18 of the 20/21 TfL Annual Report states "Major Tube station upgrades including at Holborn, Elephant & Castle, Camden Town, Colindale and Oxford Circus. So Camden Town returns to the list! All these upgrades can only go ahead when finance is available. |
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Post by jimbo on Jul 23, 2021 3:50:10 GMT
The highlights page 18 of the 20/21 TfL Annual Report states "Major Tube station upgrades including at Holborn, Elephant & Castle, Camden Town, Colindale and Oxford Circus. So Camden Town returns to the list! All these upgrades can only go ahead when finance is available. That page is headed "Our Financial Sustainability Plan sets out how from 2023/24 we would only require Government support on average of £1.6bn per annum for major capital investment. This would enable: ..." Whether that will be forthcoming, none of us know. However, at least Camden Town is back on the published listing. If it is not on the list, it will not attract any funding. It wasn't in last month's The Mayor’s Transport Strategy - Annual Update on Delivery, which started this thread. |
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Post by DWS on Jul 23, 2021 11:32:54 GMT
All these upgrades can only go ahead when finance is available. That page is headed "Our Financial Sustainability Plan sets out how from 2023/24 we would only require Government support on average of £1.6bn per annum for major capital investment. This would enable: ..." Whether that will be forthcoming, none of us know. However, at least Camden Town is back on the published listing. If it is not on the list, it will not attract any funding. It wasn't in last month's The Mayor’s Transport Strategy - Annual Update on Delivery, which started this thread. Let’s hope the Camden Town plans go a head , this will be the key to a split service on the Northern Line . |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jul 23, 2021 12:01:08 GMT
It was a government sponsored programme that created the complex web of tunnels we know today at Camden Town. I sincerely hope history repeats itself because it strengthens the case for new trains for the Jubilee, cascade of the 96TS, Northern Line 2 etc. etc. If government wants value for money, what is effectively a three-line upgrade from one fleet change and a station rebuild has got to hold some weight.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 23, 2021 12:14:47 GMT
But 30tph on the Northern could be accommodated without a split service, avoiding a rebuilt Camden Town station, and still provide a 25% service uplift from current 24tph through there! That could delay costs of rebuilding until the next fleet renewal at least.
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Post by Chris L on Jul 23, 2021 13:57:10 GMT
But 30tph on the Northern could be accommodated without a split service, avoiding a rebuilt Camden Town station, and still provide a 25% service uplift from current 24tph through there! That could delay costs of rebuilding until the next fleet renewal at least. But you can't get the service increase on the Battersea extension that is desired. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 23, 2021 14:53:18 GMT
Camden Town station also needs expansion to cope with the number of passengers using it as is. Pre-pandemic the busiest times were weekend afternoons with leisure travel to the markets not commuter traffic, so the demand is likely to pick up there quicker than commuter-focused stations.
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Post by spsmiler on Jul 31, 2021 20:00:47 GMT
I'll bed sad to see half the tunnels at Camden Town become disused and I'm not sure if passengers will welcome loss of 'one seat' / through train journey possibilities
Especially for the weekend I would expect far more passengers to want the West End than Financial District / Bank branches
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Post by jimbo on Jul 31, 2021 20:19:25 GMT
This week's capital plans drop ideas of service boosts in the short term, so Jubilee and Northern lines will see another 20 years of the same before replacement fleets open the possibility of a split service again. What will demand be by then? Only 2 or 4 major station upgrades in the next 25 years, depending on funding. Also 20 to 40 more step-free stations.
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 9, 2022 11:38:44 GMT
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Post by jimbo on May 10, 2022 7:53:37 GMT
But note:
"- Deliver in two Stages, early enabling and civils construction (Stage 1) and fit out/bringing into use (Stage 2)
TfL will be seeking a supplier to deliver Stage 1 as part of this procurement process of the ECSCU Project"
So not the complete job at this stage!
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