Last day of P86 and P89 in London

[Chris M]

In this old thread @reganorak said

The last P.86s ran on 07.07.95 and four vehicles (01, 04, 07 and 09) ran on this day. [...] The last P.89s ran on 07.07.95. All were officially available for service that day, although I am unsure if all were in service or not.

This information has been added to Wikipedia's article Docklands Light Railway rolling stock, sourced to the old post quoted. While I trust Reganorak to be correct, an internet forum is not regarded as a reliable source so does anyone know of somewhere that is reliable (book, official website, etc) where the information is published?

[undergroundernie]

Im sure that some P86 or P89 Stock where converted to SELTRAC and was running on the Beckton Extension on the day of opening

[superteacher]

Aug 22, 2021 21:32:54 GMT undergroundernie said:

Im sure that some P86 or P89 Stock where converted to SELTRAC and was running on the Beckton Extension on the day of opening

I don’t think so. I was there on the opening day, and only saw B90 / 92 stock.

[North End]

Sept 19, 2021 12:50:45 GMT superteacher said:

Aug 22, 2021 21:32:54 GMT undergroundernie said:

Im sure that some P86 or P89 Stock where converted to SELTRAC and was running on the Beckton Extension on the day of opening

I don’t think so. I was there on the opening day, and only saw B90 / 92 stock.

It was definitely B stock only to Beckton. Indeed I’m not even sure to what extent the B90 stock was fitted with the new signalling at that point, ISTR only the B92 stock had it from new.

During the first half of the 1990s it tended to be B stock to Bank, P86 stock to Tower Gateway and P89 stock to Stratford. Looking back an amazing amount of variety for a small system.

Almost incredibly given how busy the DLR is today, around this time the entire system was Mondays to Fridays only to allow for resignalling work.

[Deleted]

Jun 9, 2021 20:06:06 GMT Chris M said:

In this old thread @reganorak said

The last P.86s ran on 07.07.95 and four vehicles (01, 04, 07 and 09) ran on this day. [...] The last P.89s ran on 07.07.95. All were officially available for service that day, although I am unsure if all were in service or not.

This information has been added to Wikipedia's article Docklands Light Railway rolling stock, sourced to the old post quoted. While I trust Reganorak to be correct, an internet forum is not regarded as a reliable source so does anyone know of somewhere that is reliable (book, official website, etc) where the information is published?

In my files from the DLR.

[Chris L]

Wasn't the B to indicate they could run in the tunnels to/from Bank?

The older trains contained materials that were considered unsafe if there was a fire in the tunnels.

[North End]

Sept 19, 2021 20:50:10 GMT Chris L said:

Wasn't the B to indicate they could run in the tunnels to/from Bank?

The older trains contained materials that were considered unsafe if there was a fire in the tunnels.

This came up a while ago, I think the general view is that B denotes Beckton (Depot), but I don’t think anyone swears by it, especially as the B90 stock pre-dates Beckton by some while.

The P89 stock could work to Bank, but the P86 couldn’t. By the early 1990s P89 stock to Bank was rare, but it did happen.

Front seats on the P stock were better than the B stock as there wasn’t the emergency door to hinder views.

[Tom]

I always thought B stood for Beckton. P89's certainly ran to Bank; they were built using compliant materials.

As an aside, that's an edit the aforementioned Wikipedia page needs:

In 1989–1990, British Rail Engineering Limited's Holgate Road carriage works, supplied another ten numbered 12 to 21. These shared the characteristics of the original P86 stock. They were, though, equipped with sufficient fire-proofing to operate through the tunnels of the Bank extension, possibly because they were designed by a different manufacturer.

I suspect it wasn't because they were designed by a different manufacturer, but more that the P86s were an older design which didn't comply with the requirements that were developed post King's Cross and after the P86s were introduced?

[norbitonflyer]

Sept 19, 2021 21:02:29 GMT Tom said:

it wasn't because they were designed by a different manufacturer, but more that the P86s were an older design which didn't comply with the requirements that were developed post King's Cross and after the P86s were introduced?

The P86 were designed long before any tunnel working was envisaged.

[Tom]

Yes, I think that's partly the point I was making, they weren't necessarily envisaged for tunnel use and once they were the requirements for fire retardant materials had developed so far the P86 stock would not meet compliance without significant rebuilding.

[Tom]

Jun 9, 2021 20:06:06 GMT Chris M said:

In this old thread @reganorak said

The last P.86s ran on 07.07.95 and four vehicles (01, 04, 07 and 09) ran on this day. [...] The last P.89s ran on 07.07.95. All were officially available for service that day, although I am unsure if all were in service or not.

This information has been added to Wikipedia's article Docklands Light Railway rolling stock, sourced to the old post quoted. While I trust Reganorak to be correct, an internet forum is not regarded as a reliable source so does anyone know of somewhere that is reliable (book, official website, etc) where the information is published?

Underground News No. 403 (July 1995) states Cars 01 and 07 operated on 07.07.95.

[Chris M]

Thank you. Do you happen to have the title of the article and page numbers to hand?

[Tom]

P.244 - 'Docklands Light Railway Developments'.

[spsmiler]

Sept 19, 2021 20:59:34 GMT North End said:

Sept 19, 2021 20:50:10 GMT Chris L said:

Wasn't the B to indicate they could run in the tunnels to/from Bank?

The older trains contained materials that were considered unsafe if there was a fire in the tunnels.

This came up a while ago, I think the general view is that B denotes Beckton (Depot), but I don’t think anyone swears by it, especially as the B90 stock pre-dates Beckton by some while.

The P89 stock could work to Bank, but the P86 couldn’t. By the early 1990s P89 stock to Bank was rare, but it did happen.

Front seats on the P stock were better than the B stock as there wasn’t the emergency door to hinder views.

My understanding is that it was P for Poplar depot and B for Beckton depot.

[rincew1nd]

Of course, the P86 stock still operates across the channel...

[spsmiler]

Oct 26, 2021 20:26:42 GMT rincew1nd said:

Of course, the P86 stock still operates across the channel...

if I recall correctly new LRV's are on order to replace them - and the P89s

[Tom]

There are indeed, due 2024ish.