A question about the Wimbledon branch signal WG150

[zcap]

Hey all,

I just passed WG150 on Southbound Putney Bridge approach and was wondering, since the layout change, is WG150 still a speed controlled signal?

Thanks

[Dstock7080]

Jul 7, 2021 8:15:07 GMT zcap said:

Hey all,

I just passed WG150 on Southbound Putney Bridge approach and was wondering, since the layout change, is WG150 still a speed controlled signal?

Thanks

30mph restriction applies, I’m sure the approach control was removed

[Deleted]

The approach control is still active if WG15 is a danger but since the removal of the bay road it automatically clears as the site is normally in FCFS mode on the WB. So WG150 is normally clear to answer your question these days

Its no longer Southbound and Northbound had has not been for a long while

[shunterl44]

FCFS??

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2021 16:12:56 GMT shunterl44 said:

FCFS??

First Come First Serve is a Programme Machine mode that automatically clears signals according to the TD

TD Train Description

[roythebus]

The District Line has always been eastbound/westbound. It certainly was in 1970 when I worked on there.

[Deleted]

It was known for a time in the 90’s as south and northbound

[DWS]

Jul 13, 2021 12:46:39 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

It was known for a time in the 90’s as south and northbound

West of Putney it was the Down Road, Earl’s Court to Putney was always the Westbound District. Having been in the Earl’s Court ‘s control room as a signalman from 1982 until 2001 it’ was up road from Wimbledon to Putney and Eastbound from Putney to Earls Court.

The Signal department may have used North / South in the 1990’s but the diagram in the control room did not use this designation.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2021 15:36:35 GMT DWS said:

Jul 13, 2021 12:46:39 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

It was known for a time in the 90’s as south and northbound

West of Putney it was the Down Road, Earl’s Court to Putney was always the Westbound District. Having been in the Earl’s Court ‘s control room as a signalman from 1982 until 2001 it’ was up road from Wimbledon to Putney and Eastbound from Putney to Earls Court.

The Signal department may have used North / South in the 1990’s but the diagram in the control room did not use this designation.

It was also known on the stations I remember the boards at Putney Bridge before you go up the stairs showing North and southbound they then had a sticker applied which changed it to east and westbound.

[greggygreggygreg]

Bear in mind, that before 1994, it was British Rail, so would have used their terminology from an operational point of view of Up and Down. It is still signalled by Network Rail now, so presumably still does?

[Tom]

Jul 13, 2021 19:31:31 GMT greggygreggygreg said:

Bear in mind, that before 1994, it was British Rail, so would have used their terminology from an operational point of view of Up and Down. It is still signalled by Network Rail now, so presumably still does?

But not at this particular location which is on the LU side of the infrastructure maintenance boundary.

[DWS]

Jul 13, 2021 18:12:43 GMT @aetearlscourt said:

Jul 13, 2021 15:36:35 GMT DWS said:

West of Putney it was the Down Road, Earl’s Court to Putney was always the Westbound District. Having been in the Earl’s Court ‘s control room as a signalman from 1982 until 2001 it’ was up road from Wimbledon to Putney and Eastbound from Putney to Earls Court.

The Signal department may have used North / South in the 1990’s but the diagram in the control room did not use this designation.

It was also known on the stations I remember the boards at Putney Bridge before you go up the stairs showing North and southbound they then had a sticker applied which changed it to east and westbound.

Yes stations on the east end of the Piccadilly line used have signs Northbound and Southbound. But the terms used by control room staff was Eastbound and Westbound.

[Colin]

Jul 13, 2021 19:31:31 GMT greggygreggygreg said:

Bear in mind, that before 1994, it was British Rail, so would have used their terminology from an operational point of view of Up and Down. It is still signalled by Network Rail now, so presumably still does?

Yes, Network Rail uses the descriptors "up" and "down" across the UK to describe directions.


The Network Rail parts of the District line (East Putney to Wimbledon and Gunnersbury to Richmond) are therefore referred to as up (towards central London) or down (away from central London) internally. Up and Down is the language used by drivers and signallers. The same is true incidentally on the Bakerloo line north of Queens Park.

As far as the public see's, these sections follow the convention of the given line as a whole - the District line as a whole is east/west and the Bakerloo is north/south. Actual local geography is irrelevant.

[North End]

Jul 13, 2021 21:49:15 GMT Colin said:

Jul 13, 2021 19:31:31 GMT greggygreggygreg said:

Bear in mind, that before 1994, it was British Rail, so would have used their terminology from an operational point of view of Up and Down. It is still signalled by Network Rail now, so presumably still does?

Yes, Network Rail uses the descriptors "up" and "down" across the UK to describe directions.


The Network Rail parts of the District line (East Putney to Wimbledon and Gunnersbury to Richmond) are therefore referred to as up (towards central London) or down (away from central London) internally. Up and Down is the language used by drivers and signallers. The same is true incidentally on the Bakerloo line north of Queens Park.

As far as the public see's, these sections follow the convention of the given line as a whole - the District line as a whole is east/west and the Bakerloo is north/south. Actual local geography is irrelevant.

From a public-facing point of view, there’s certainly signage on the east end of the Picc which refers to Northbound and Southbound.

To be honest with Wimbledon being its own branch, I’m surprised the official designations for the LU part aren’t NB and SB. In the same way that the Central has IR and OR on the Hainault loop.

[Colin]

Jul 13, 2021 21:52:38 GMT North End said:

To be honest with Wimbledon being its own branch, I’m surprised the official designations for the LU part aren’t NB and SB. In the same way that the Central has IR and OR on the Hainault loop.

What do you mean by "Wimbledon being its own branch"?

Are you referring to the Edgware Road service? Don't forget half the service on the Wimbledon branch goes to Tower Hill/Barking/Upminster and they're in the east!

[Chris M]

I think the Jubilee line is unique in having a northbound/southbound section (Green Park-Stanmore) and am eastbound/westbound section (Green Park to Stratford). I'm guessing that this is because the original Metropolitan/Bakerloo and Fleet line sections were signed as a north-south railway, carrying this convention through the extension would result in southbound trains heading almost due north between North Greenwich and Stratford. As the Green Park to Stanmore section of the line runs roughly north west-south east, changing the whole line to east-west wouldn't have had this issue (eastbound trains departing Kingsbury heading south west being the only real anomaly), so presumably switch costs were the deciding factor here?

[North End]

Jul 13, 2021 21:59:42 GMT Colin said:

Jul 13, 2021 21:52:38 GMT North End said:

To be honest with Wimbledon being its own branch, I’m surprised the official designations for the LU part aren’t NB and SB. In the same way that the Central has IR and OR on the Hainault loop.

What do you mean by "Wimbledon being its own branch"?

Are you referring to the Edgware Road service? Don't forget half the service on the Wimbledon branch goes to Tower Hill/Barking/Upminster and they're in the east!

I meant that line designations on LU change - a Central Line train from Ealing to Hainault will be on the EB from Ealing to Leytonstone, and on the IR from Leytonstone to Hainault. It would be quite viable for an Upminster to Wimbledon train to start on the WB, change to SB at Earl’s Court, and finally be on the Down at East Putney. Personally I’d find that a lot more logical than what actually exists.

[North End]

Jul 13, 2021 22:02:47 GMT Chris M said:

I think the Jubilee line is unique in having a northbound/southbound section (Green Park-Stanmore) and am eastbound/westbound section (Green Park to Stratford). I'm guessing that this is because the original Metropolitan/Bakerloo and Fleet line sections were signed as a north-south railway, carrying this convention through the extension would result in southbound trains heading almost due north between North Greenwich and Stratford. As the Green Park to Stanmore section of the line runs roughly north west-south east, changing the whole line to east-west wouldn't have had this issue (eastbound trains departing Kingsbury heading south west being the only real anomaly), so presumably switch costs were the deciding factor here?

I suspect you’re right that it was largely a cost and familiarity issue - it would have meant redesignating stuff on the earlier section of line.

There’s also the slight issue of how Charing Cross would have been handled, though that could easily have been made EB and WB too.

All quite a bit of cost as well as change for staff. It would have been neater though.

As I said elsewhere, there’s loads of places on LU where a train changes from one line designation to another. The sub surface lines in particular.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2021 21:52:38 GMT North End said:

Jul 13, 2021 21:49:15 GMT Colin said:

Yes, Network Rail uses the descriptors "up" and "down" across the UK to describe directions.


The Network Rail parts of the District line (East Putney to Wimbledon and Gunnersbury to Richmond) are therefore referred to as up (towards central London) or down (away from central London) internally. Up and Down is the language used by drivers and signallers. The same is true incidentally on the Bakerloo line north of Queens Park.

As far as the public see's, these sections follow the convention of the given line as a whole - the District line as a whole is east/west and the Bakerloo is north/south. Actual local geography is irrelevant.

From a public-facing point of view, there’s certainly signage on the east end of the Picc which refers to Northbound and Southbound.

To be honest with Wimbledon being its own branch, I’m surprised the official designations for the LU part aren’t NB and SB. In the same way that the Central has IR and OR on the Hainault loop.

The only Picc station now with north/southbound station line diagrams is at Finsbury Park, which is in accord with the adjacent Victoria Line, irrespective of it being wrong and the Picc being officially an east-west railway.