Part Tunnel, Part Open Air Stations

[spsmiler]

I feel sure I know the answer but thought I should ask anyway...

Are there any 'tube train' stations which are partly in tunnel and partly in open air?

I'm thinking of a tube train version of Bow Road, which is a 'subsurface train' station.

[superteacher]

Mile End (Central Line) westbound platform used to be partly exposed to the open air.

[hobbayne]

Hounslow West, daylight can be seen at the east end of the platform as trains emerge from the tunnel.

[Chris L]

Jul 26, 2021 21:31:21 GMT hobbayne said:

Hounslow West, daylight can be seen at the east end of the platform as trains emerge from the tunnel.

This is a cut and cover station rather than in a tube tunnel. The original track was diverted into it for the extension to Heathrow.

The extension was tagged as Follenfant's Folly. HG Follenfant, LT's Chief Civil Engineer at the time, was due to retire. The extension was built using cut and cover and tunnelling with a small bridge on an open air section over a stream.

[castlebar]

Hounslow West was built for the District, to District specs. LT, TfL and the Picc are newbies here

[quex]

Jul 27, 2021 20:30:10 GMT castlebar said:

Hounslow West was built for the District, to District specs. LT, TfL and the Picc are newbies here

That might be true with the original Hounslow West, nee Barracks, but you'd certainly stuggle with getting an S7 into the reconstructed station that is the one under discussion here...

re. "half-in, half out" tube stations, I can nominate some tenuous "close, but no cigar" options:
- Kensal Green has the portals to the tunnels immediately at the end of the platform and is in a quite deep cutting
- ditto Drayton Park
- historically, you could have considered the East London line a tube railway when '38 Stock ran on it. Plenty of half-open, half-covered stations on the line.
But I think these probably aren't really what you're looking for and I may be teaching you to suck eggs...

What about Edgware though? The far north end of the island platform is a bit "underground" where the bridge/tunnels of the Bushey Heath extension is/are. The other end of the line, Morden, has somewhat similar qualities.

Wood Lane on the Central might qualify as a historical example, depending on your criteria.

[Chris L]

Jul 27, 2021 20:30:10 GMT castlebar said:

Hounslow West was built for the District, to District specs. LT, TfL and the Picc are newbies here

It may have been but a new alignment of the platforms was needed for the Heathrow Extension.

This explains the long walk from the ticket hall to the new platforms.

I should know as I attended the construction site as a trainee in 1972.

[slugabed]

Follenfant's book,"Reconstructing London's Underground" (full of interesting stuff,though long out of print) says that he regrets not having built the Heathrow Extension to Surface Gauge,but he couldn't justify the extra cost and technical complexity to the bean-counters,as it was,by then,only going to be served by Piccadilly Line tube stock.

[norbitonflyer]

Jul 27, 2021 7:25:20 GMT Chris L said:

The extension was tagged as Follenfant's Folly. HG Follenfant, LT's Chief Civil Engineer at the time, was due to retire. The extension was built using cut and cover and tunnelling with a small bridge on an open air section over a stream.

Whimsical it may seem (like Box Tunnel being aligned with sunrise on Brunel's birthday*), but eac[a to have been done for a reason. Cut and cover is probably the best choice for the tie-in with the original line, and the new platforms at Hounslow West. Bridging the stream avoided drainage issues. And bored tube for the rest of the extension avoided digging up the runways.


* actually, as later research reveals, his little sister's birthday

[class411]

Jul 28, 2021 12:08:23 GMT norbitonflyer said:

* actually, as later research reveals, his little sister's birthday

Currently aligned with the birthday of > 180,000 people in the UK alone.

[spsmiler]

Jul 27, 2021 22:14:06 GMT quex said:

Jul 27, 2021 20:30:10 GMT castlebar said:

Hounslow West was built for the District, to District specs. LT, TfL and the Picc are newbies here

That might be true with the original Hounslow West, nee Barracks, but you'd certainly stuggle with getting an S7 into the reconstructed station that is the one under discussion here...

re. "half-in, half out" tube stations, I can nominate some tenuous "close, but no cigar" options:
- Kensal Green has the portals to the tunnels immediately at the end of the platform and is in a quite deep cutting
- ditto Drayton Park
- historically, you could have considered the East London line a tube railway when '38 Stock ran on it. Plenty of half-open, half-covered stations on the line.
But I think these probably aren't really what you're looking for and I may be teaching you to suck eggs...

What about Edgware though? The far north end of the island platform is a bit "underground" where the bridge/tunnels of the Bushey Heath extension is/are. The other end of the line, Morden, has somewhat similar qualities.

Wood Lane on the Central might qualify as a historical example, depending on your criteria.

Thanks everyone

The new Hounslow West could have been what I had in mind but they put a car park over all of it! I was looking at it yesterday using Google maps and was somewhat miffed because the image quality is not very good (truly dire when compared with the Google image quality of my local area - Ilford). I was curious to see the new concrete embankment retaining walls where the line diverted away from the old platforms but it was not very clear.

The same issue of 'only building to tube gauge' would likely have applied to Edgware and north had it been built, as it is possible that to cope with high passenger demand the Moorgate service to Ally Pally would have ended up with the larger S stock sized trains and the Bushey Heath via Edgware service using the same trains so as to eliminate services to Moorgate using differently sized trains - with the differently sized trains using their own dedicated platforms at East Finchley and Finchley Central. Plus (perhaps) with the planned peak hour Moorgate - High Barnet via Finsbury Park trains being withdrawn.

I note how even the sections at platform which are undercover at Edgware (and Morden) do not have the suicide pits. 

Returning to this thread, another subsurface station where there are several tube style sections of platform is Mansion House. Its small but the western end of the platforms have tube style arched tunnels.

My question, btw is in connection with a modelling project - a station where one end is open air and the other end is in tube tunnels (in a hill). I suppose almost what stations such as Kensal Green, Hendon Central or even the new Hounslow West could have been like. Its early days, I am still working things out and I only have limited time so progress will be slow. 

[norbitonflyer]

Jul 28, 2021 12:15:39 GMT class411 said:

Jul 28, 2021 12:08:23 GMT norbitonflyer said:

* actually, as later research reveals, his little sister's birthday

Currently aligned with the birthday of > 180,000 people in the UK alone.

Also 25th March (New Year's Day) in the Julian calendar, and the beginning of the financial year.

[quex]

Jul 28, 2021 12:47:13 GMT spsmiler said:

The same issue of 'only building to tube gauge' would likely have applied to Edgware and north had it been built, as it is possible that to cope with high passenger demand the Moorgate service to Ally Pally would have ended up with the larger S stock sized trains and the Bushey Heath via Edgware service using the same trains so as to eliminate services to Moorgate using differently sized trains - with the differently sized trains using their own dedicated platforms at East Finchley and Finchley Central. Plus (perhaps) with the planned peak hour Moorgate - High Barnet via Finsbury Park trains being withdrawn.

I've sometimes had visions of lovely red flare-sided Q Stock running down to Moorgate and up into the Northern Heights! Alas I think the "ramps" at Drayton Park were only built to tube gauge, but in a parallel universe...

Jul 28, 2021 12:47:13 GMT spsmiler said:

Returning to this thread, another subsurface station where there are several tube style sections of platform is Mansion House. Its small but the western end of the platforms have tube style arched tunnels.

Kings Cross St Pancras is another very "tubey" SSR station.

Redbridge is somewhat the opposite - it's mostly cut-and-cover but features a transition to tube tunnel at the extreme ends of the platforms.

[slugabed]

Jul 28, 2021 19:34:45 GMT quex said:

Alas I think the "ramps" at Drayton Park were only built to tube gauge, but in a parallel universe...

The S/B ramp is currently used by full-sized stock with OHLE,so they were probably built to surface gauge.

[quex]

Jul 28, 2021 22:18:37 GMT slugabed said:

The S/B ramp is currently used by full-sized stock with OHLE,so they were probably built to surface gauge.

I think they were reconstructed during the BR takeover; this photo appears show them to be tube gauge.

www.flickr.com/photos/trains-travel/44534957610

[jimbo]

I made a staff suggestion during the Acton Works strike that the 1938TS could be replaced there by Q stock to provide more spares, but the answer was that the line was to surface stock gauge except for the transfer ramp! These days they would probably use road delivery, but back then .....

[Chris L]

The original design for North Greenwich was for a trench with open air platforms.

Water seepage is a problem with some of the blue mosaic wall tiles popping off.

[Chris M]

Jul 29, 2021 5:37:13 GMT Chris L said:

The original design for North Greenwich was for a trench with open air platforms.

Not on the tube, but Stratford International high speed is an open air trench between bored tunnels.

[selbiehouse]

Moorgate at one time was part open.   Photo taken 6/2/1965.