35b
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Post by 35b on Apr 25, 2022 7:50:01 GMT
Arriving at King's Cross this morning, I had my first experience of a pre-Covid rush as the SSR was down to a crawl. With the H&C suspended "due to a power failure", and not many Met or Circle trains, the sardine can was back.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 25, 2022 8:59:06 GMT
Unfortunately a reoccurrence of the problems plaguing the Barking/Plaistow areas for the last few weekends which this morning resulted in a Circle Line train stalled between Mile End and Stepney Green WB which required a push-out from the following train.
Yesterday services were suspended Whitechapel-Dagenham East for the morning, into the afternoon an overlapping service both terminating at Whitechapel was introduced.
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Apr 25, 2022 12:13:45 GMT
Unfortunately a reoccurrence of the problems plaguing the Barking/Plaistow areas for the last few weekends which this morning resulted in a Circle Line train stalled between Mile End and Stepney Green WB which required a push-out from the following train. Yesterday services were suspended Whitechapel-Dagenham East for the morning, into the afternoon an overlapping service both terminating at Whitechapel was introduced. Do you know what the problems were ? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 25, 2022 14:01:34 GMT
Do you know what the problems were ? Over recent weekends small spikes in the traction current supply have caused S Stock trains to undergo an involuntary Correct Operation Protection COP* test, something which should not happen while operating in service. This results in trains coming to a halt, unable to move, compressors stopping, all lighting being extinguished. Investigations are ongoing to find the root cause. * - “The COP monitors the current for any voltage irregularity and opens the HSCBs High Speed Circuit Breakers if voltage is detected beyond the safe parameters.” |
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Post by d7666 on Apr 25, 2022 21:23:40 GMT
Do you know what the problems were ? Over recent weekends small spikes in the traction current supply have caused S Stock trains to undergo an involuntary Correct Operation Protection COP* test, something which should not happen while operating in service. This results in trains coming to a halt, unable to move, compressors stopping, all lighting being extinguished. Investigations are ongoing to find the root cause. * - “The COP monitors the current for any voltage irregularity and opens the HSCBs High Speed Circuit Breakers if voltage is detected beyond the safe parameters.” Only weekends ? Wrong kind of volts on Sats and Suns  ? I could suggest a scenario that might fit that, but will refrain from doing so until checked some facts first, and I'm sure there are better qualified armchairs than me to say something. |
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Post by t697 on Apr 26, 2022 8:43:34 GMT
Only weekends ? Wrong kind of volts on Sats and Suns  ? I could suggest a scenario that might fit that, but will refrain from doing so until checked some facts first, and I'm sure there are better qualified armchairs than me to say something. A colleague tells me analysis shows only a mild correlation to 'weekends only' that's not conclusive and certainly not most events of COP tripping.
There may be a correlation with periods of fewer trains running causing the biggest actual delays with trains immobilised for periods. Would you share your scenario with us all? Or send PM? You never know what others might have missed.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 26, 2022 12:11:25 GMT
Here is a possible cause - a mini Carrington event / coronal mass (solar energy) discharge which reaches our planetary ionosphere and even the surface.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 1, 2022 10:39:33 GMT
After the problems starting this thread on 25 April, it hasn't gone well this week!
Tue 26: three trains in early morning variously Plaistow/Barking, maximum delay 11mins. One train in afternoon Barking sidings, cancelled into service. Two trains in evening Upton Park and East Ham, East Ham delay 9mins and further 19mins at Barking platform.
Wed 27: early morning one train stalled approaching Barking westbound 4min delay.
Thu 28: early morning one train stalled approaching Barking westbound 86min delay. Same time another train at East Ham 5min delay. 30mins later, another at Temple 5min delay.
Mon 1 May: early this morning one train stalled approaching East Ham, 150 passengers detrained to track, 180min delay.
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Post by class411 on May 1, 2022 12:13:47 GMT
After the problems starting this thread on 25 April, it hasn't gone well this week! Tue 26: three trains in early morning variously Plaistow/Barking, maximum delay 11mins. One train in afternoon Barking sidings, cancelled into service. Two trains in evening Upton Park and East Ham, East Ham delay 9mins and further 19mins at Barking platform. Wed 27: early morning one train stalled approaching Barking westbound 4min delay. Thu 28: early morning one train stalled approaching Barking westbound 86min delay. Same time another train at East Ham 5min delay. 30mins later, another at Temple 5min delay. Mon 1 May: early this morning one train stalled approaching East Ham, 150 passengers detrained to track, 180min delay. This is an intriguing phrase. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 1, 2022 13:41:07 GMT
I think "cancelled into service" means that it was being prepared to form a passenger service, or was en route from the stabling location to begin passenger service, but failed before it reached the running lines, and so its entry into service was cancelled (presumably along with at least part of the service it was due to form). Had it failed on the running lines between the depot/siding exit and the first passenger station call I would guess it would be described as something like "failed entering service" and more than likely have caused some delays.
I agree that it's an interesting way of phrasing that (assuming I'm correct).
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 1, 2022 21:50:56 GMT
It's a very odd phrase, I would normally expect something like cancelled from depot.
Maybe it's another one of the malformations of the English language that can only come from certain parts of London Underground - at least the writer didn't use 'tasked to site' which makes me want to take a hot poker to my eyes.
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Post by d7666 on May 3, 2022 14:26:59 GMT
It's a very odd phrase, I would normally expect something like cancelled from depot. Maybe it's another one of the malformations of the English language that can only come from certain parts of London Underground - at least the writer didn't use 'tasked to site' which makes me want to take a hot poker to my eyes. IIMU a phrase like "cancelled from depot" is used for technical reasons e.g. a fault with the train whereas "cancelled into service" is operational reasons. But, as always, myself being a mere lowly engineer who happens to work within a SCC much of the malformed English found there remains is mysterious, and I may be wrong. One wonders if a latent volcano one day spewed megatonnes of ash Pompeii style over Hammersmith and buried HSCC for 2000 years what future archeologists and linguists would make of the actual wording on discovering the F&D sheets. Current role I don't need to look at these, but previous roles I have, and some of the code used all but needs an Enigma machine to decypher. |
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Post by brigham on May 4, 2022 7:39:48 GMT
Cancelled into service?
Include me out!
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Post by d7666 on May 5, 2022 13:44:41 GMT
Back to the main subject issue.
Moles tell me the immediate cause is 800 V spikes on the positive rail. Has been randomly occuring for over a year, not just at weekends.
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Post by zbang on May 5, 2022 15:47:27 GMT
Is that 800v from ground or from the negative rail? (Neither would be good, one is a lot less bad.)
Either way, it's hard to do a spike like that out of what's probably a 6-pulse bridge rectifier unless there's some parasitic capacitance occasionally resonating.
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Post by t697 on May 5, 2022 16:26:35 GMT
Back to the main subject issue. Moles tell me the immediate cause is 800 V spikes on the positive rail. Has been randomly occuring for over a year, not just at weekends. Interesting. Not what I've been told  |
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Post by d7666 on May 5, 2022 18:42:27 GMT
Back to the main subject issue. Moles tell me the immediate cause is 800 V spikes on the positive rail. Has been randomly occuring for over a year, not just at weekends. Interesting. Not what I've been told Well I can only relay info I receive  ; I can't give it away in here who said it ! |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 6, 2022 20:09:27 GMT
In 750v areas (which a lot of the SSR network now runs at), I understood the spikes from regenerative braking could be as high as 890v, so this would surprise me, too.
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Post by d7666 on May 7, 2022 13:44:06 GMT
In 750v areas (which a lot of the SSR network now runs at), I understood the spikes from regenerative braking could be as high as 890v, so this would surprise me, too. Yes, but that is 750 V nominal supply, and 890 V regen, TOTAL potential difference across both +ve and -ve rails. The info I had and posted was 800 V on the positive rail alone. To which you then add the negative rail to get the total, which then way exceeds 890 V or whatever the total top value is. I'm not saying the info I had is correct, nevertheless those moles are generally informed. |
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; I can't give it away in here who said it !
