Met line curiosities 24/07

[downdc]

Hello all

I took a few journeys on the Met on Friday 24th, and a few things seemed different to normal. I wondered on the day and wonder now, out of my usual curiosity, whether these were a hangover from the industrial action, or whether I simply observed things happening as a result of everyday service recovery.

The first unusual thing, and possibly the most minor, was seeing a train stop at a signal on the Southbound main between Moor Park and Northwood; this was somewhere around 1230.  I’m guessing services on the main have usually stopped by this time, but seeing a train stopped (albeit only momentarily) far from any station, junction or other conflict seemed unusual enough itself.  I couldn’t see from my footpath vantage point if it was in service or not. When I arrived at Northwood and headed southbound shortly afterward, I saw a unit on the Northbound main running out of service, and wondered quite speculatively if it may have been the same unit I’d seen a while back.

I travelled from Northwood-Ruislip and returned Ickenham-Watford, and all was normal. However, in the evening I essentially repeated the journey, travelling Moor Park-Ickenham and returning Ickenham-Watford, and on this journey there were more unusual observations.  Firstly, when I arrived at Moor Park around 7pm I went to platform 4 as I expected all Southbound services to be leaving from that platform, at that time. I noticed on the DMI that the next two trains showed as terminating at HOTH. A southbound service then arrived on platform 2. I was initially preoccupied with the novel nature of such an occurrence, before snapping out of it and zooming across to get a much quicker route to HOTH! Interestingly, this train was also terminating at Harrow. What was more interesting still - and extremely convenient for me - was that when the T/Op made the PA about terminating as we arrived at Harrow, he also explained that the train would be reversing to Uxbridge! Naturally, I was happy to ignore the next Uxbridge off platform 4 in favour of remaining on board to travel over some pieces of track for the first time… anyway, to surmise there had been 1 southbound service from Moor Park and the next 2 all terminating at Harrow, one ran fast against the peak flow, and then reversed and changed to the Uxbridge branch, leaving Harrow shortly after 2 Uxbridge trains had left from the usual platform. All that had been showing at any time on tfl was ‘minor delays’, at one point only on the Uxbridge branch, but that was earlier in the day, and I saw no mention of any special or reduced service etc at any point.

When I returned from Ickenham, that train was also a Harrow terminator, although on this occasion it tipped out on platform 5 and then headed south, routed to the main line. When I was heading back to Watford, I saw the last unusual thing, which was a train in the siding as Northwood.  Any time I mention on here seeing something for the first time, I am informed that it is not in fact that rare! I have never been a regular commuter, but I have almost always lived towards the north end of Met and on the zillions of occasions I’ve been past Northwood, I think I’ve seen a train there either once or never (other than during scrapping etc).

So, a lot of detail to ask a question which may have a mundane answer! Were these occurrences as a result of slightly changed operations? Or just everyday stuff an occasional user won’t see happening as often as it actually happens?

As always, many thanks…

[Dstock7080]

Jun 26, 2022 9:35:22 GMT downdc said:

The first unusual thing, and possibly the most minor, was seeing a train stop at a signal on the Southbound main between Moor Park and Northwood; this was somewhere around 1230.  I’m guessing services on the main have usually stopped by this time, but seeing a train stopped (albeit only momentarily) far from any station, junction or other conflict seemed unusual enough itself.  I couldn’t see from my footpath vantage point if it was in service or not. When I arrived at Northwood and headed southbound shortly afterward, I saw a unit on the Northbound main running out of service, and wondered quite speculatively if it may have been the same unit I’d seen a while back.

Appears to be T735 S8 test train, departed Neasden depot 11.12, Wembley Pk1, HoH1, ML, Amersham2 12.06-12.09, ML, Moor Park2 12.33, HoH2 12.44-12.47, ML, Amersham2 13.25-13.28, ML, Moor Park2 13.45, HoH6 13.57, SBF, Wembley Pk6 14.01, Neasden depot 14.06.

In the evening there was a trackside fire at Dollis Hill, services were suspended beyond Harrow as a result.

[d7666]

Jun 26, 2022 9:35:22 GMT downdc said:

Hello all

I took a few journeys on the Met on Friday 24th, and a few things seemed different to normal. I wondered on the day and wonder now, out of my usual curiosity, whether these were a hangover from the industrial action, or whether I simply observed things happening as a result of everyday service recovery.Or just everyday stuff an occasional user won’t see happening as often as it actually happens?

Every day alterations that keep us all busy running the railway, all in a days work, especially one of our operating colleagues in here often at HOH

Remember no two incidents are identical; even if a repeat technical or operating issue arises at a repeat location, it is unlikely to be at a similar hour of the clock, so, for example, train operatrs will be at different positions in their duty, other staff also at different positions in their respective duties and rosters, so each problem drives it's own unique options and decisions for recovery, and, like the introduction to "Stingray", 'Anything can happen in the next half hour'.

[downdc]

Thanks both, I appear to have completely missed the info about part suspension, blissfully unaware I guess and partly because I entered Moor Park from the Sandy Lodge entrance which means the first visible info is for next trains rather than service status. I feel somewhat fortunate that disruption elsewhere positively affected my journey! In this type of situation do trains reverse South-North at Neasden? As trains were arriving from the South both times I was at HOTH in the evening.

[DWS]

Jun 26, 2022 17:29:04 GMT downdc said:

Thanks both, I appear to have completely missed the info about part suspension, blissfully unaware I guess and partly because I entered Moor Park from the Sandy Lodge entrance which means the first visible info is for next trains rather than service status. I feel somewhat fortunate that disruption elsewhere positively affected my journey! In this type of situation do trains reverse South-North at Neasden? As trains were arriving from the South both times I was at HOTH in the evening.

Trains would reverse at Wembley Park via Neasden Depot.

[scheduler]

There's a limited number of trains can be reversed in the single reversing siding at HOTH. The rest would have to run down to Wembley Park and reverse via Neasden Depot, making use of the flyover to come out northbound. It could in theory be possible to run passenger to Wembley Park and detrain there, but that gives a mixed customer message, and restricts your ability to hold trains and move trains in and out of the depot at will, as you have to ensure the train is empty before proceeding into depot. So I suspect it was considered easier to terminate everything at HOTH.

[MoreToJack]

I've been off recently so unable to help with any specifics, but here's a general overview of how things work...

Jun 26, 2022 9:35:22 GMT downdc said:

The first unusual thing, and possibly the most minor, was seeing a train stop at a signal on the Southbound main between Moor Park and Northwood; this was somewhere around 1230.  I’m guessing services on the main have usually stopped by this time, but seeing a train stopped (albeit only momentarily) far from any station, junction or other conflict seemed unusual enough itself.  I couldn’t see from my footpath vantage point if it was in service or not. When I arrived at Northwood and headed southbound shortly afterward, I saw a unit on the Northbound main running out of service, and wondered quite speculatively if it may have been the same unit I’d seen a while back.

Unlikely that these would have been the same units, given the need to run to Harrow and back to be able to reverse (if I've read what you said correctly and that there was only a short period between sightings). Even if platform 2 was available to reverse in (any other option would involve a double-shunt via Harrow siding as a best case scenario), it's a relatively low-speed move, and - unless you know about it well in advance - unlikely to be able to implement 'quickly' given the signalling locking and timetabling arrangements for Chiltern services. As to why there was a train stopped on the southbound Main, that is unfortunately going to be known only to those on duty at the time.

Jun 26, 2022 9:35:22 GMT downdc said:

I travelled from Northwood-Ruislip and returned Ickenham-Watford, and all was normal. However, in the evening I essentially repeated the journey, travelling Moor Park-Ickenham and returning Ickenham-Watford, and on this journey there were more unusual observations.  Firstly, when I arrived at Moor Park around 7pm I went to platform 4 as I expected all Southbound services to be leaving from that platform, at that time. I noticed on the DMI that the next two trains showed as terminating at HOTH. A southbound service then arrived on platform 2. I was initially preoccupied with the novel nature of such an occurrence, before snapping out of it and zooming across to get a much quicker route to HOTH! Interestingly, this train was also terminating at Harrow. What was more interesting still - and extremely convenient for me - was that when the T/Op made the PA about terminating as we arrived at Harrow, he also explained that the train would be reversing to Uxbridge! Naturally, I was happy to ignore the next Uxbridge off platform 4 in favour of remaining on board to travel over some pieces of track for the first time… anyway, to surmise there had been 1 southbound service from Moor Park and the next 2 all terminating at Harrow, one ran fast against the peak flow, and then reversed and changed to the Uxbridge branch, leaving Harrow shortly after 2 Uxbridge trains had left from the usual platform. All that had been showing at any time on tfl was ‘minor delays’, at one point only on the Uxbridge branch, but that was earlier in the day, and I saw no mention of any special or reduced service etc at any point.

Jumping ahead slightly, but this was an actual 'unusual' move - nothing is booked to reverse off the platform from Harrow to Uxbridge, but it does see quite a lot of use during perturbation. As for the reason, again that'll be lost in time, but it could include a train getting back 'on book' after a previous delay or diversion, a reform to an 'on time' Uxbridge train using an available driver or a diversion to Uxbridge to stow in the sidings there. All are possible during disruption.

Running down the southbound Main to Harrow outside of the morning peak is also unusual, and something not commonly done except in extreme disruption. Fast running is usually done ad-hoc south of Harrow, with any delays being absorbed either through turn around time, a short trip in the City or 'on the North'.

Jun 26, 2022 9:35:22 GMT downdc said:

When I returned from Ickenham, that train was also a Harrow terminator, although on this occasion it tipped out on platform 5 and then headed south, routed to the main line. When I was heading back to Watford, I saw the last unusual thing, which was a train in the siding as Northwood.  Any time I mention on here seeing something for the first time, I am informed that it is not in fact that rare! I have never been a regular commuter, but I have almost always lived towards the north end of Met and on the zillions of occasions I’ve been past Northwood, I think I’ve seen a train there either once or never (other than during scrapping etc).

I would certainly consider a train in the siding at Northwood, during the day, as rare. There is one booked move Monday to Saturday during the evening, but it does frequently get cancelled (as it runs empty) to simplify stabling arrangements at Rickmansworth. Reversing north to south is quite common during significant disruption, although is avoided unless there really isn't any other option - the signalling at Northwood is controlled from a separate panel at Harrow at the opposite end of the frame, and during disruption can end up slowing down the whole service at Harrow for the sake of one train. The physical 'on the ground' signalling at Northwood is also quite a slow process to get a train in and out the siding - it's very easy to lock up the whole area with one incorrect signal, with the only way out of it being a wrong directional move. This move is done from time to time during engineering shutdowns south of North Harrow (accounting for buffer sections and the like).

Jun 26, 2022 17:29:04 GMT downdc said:

Thanks both, I appear to have completely missed the info about part suspension, blissfully unaware I guess and partly because I entered Moor Park from the Sandy Lodge entrance which means the first visible info is for next trains rather than service status. I feel somewhat fortunate that disruption elsewhere positively affected my journey! In this type of situation do trains reverse South-North at Neasden? As trains were arriving from the South both times I was at HOTH in the evening.

During shutdowns where Neasden is still available the preferred option is to reverse via Neasden depot, yes - generally using the north end and re-entering via the flyunder. The majority of trains will 'tip out' at Harrow and then run down the southbound fast and straight into Neasden depot - this is because there are both more staff available at Harrow to assist with detrainments, whilst also making better use of the available signalling. Empty trains can also then quite happily sit on the fast line if there are any delays getting into Neasden, and won't affect a local line service should one be provided. Wherever possible, a number of trains (generally those booked to terminate at Baker Street, although local judgement will be used) will be extended through to Wembley to tip out there, but this can take longer as there are generally no staff to assist. Trains will generally only run 'local'/all stations to Wembley in this instance, given both the above circumstances but also to provide the cross-platform interchange to the Jubilee line.

Shutdowns east of Baker Street will usually see the Aldgate trains only taken off at Harrow, with Baker Streets running through. Where a shutdown renders Neasden inaccessible - be that for putting trains away or getting them out again - the service will be thinned out at other locations (Uxbridge, Rickmansworth and Watford sidings) with shuttle services being set up with the available trains and - importantly - train crew. Generally speaking these will be Harrow-Uxbridge (off the platform, usually 6), Harrow-Watford (reversing via 5, the siding and 4) and Harrow-Amersham/Chesham (reversing in platform 2) although, as ever, there is no hard and fast rule - the local signallers will work with the controller, trains manager and station staff to manage the service as effectively as possible.

[MoreToJack]

Jun 29, 2022 20:17:59 GMT scheduler said:

There's a limited number of trains can be reversed in the single reversing siding at HOTH. The rest would have to run down to Wembley Park and reverse via Neasden Depot, making use of the flyover to come out northbound. It could in theory be possible to run passenger to Wembley Park and detrain there, but that gives a mixed customer message, and restricts your ability to hold trains and move trains in and out of the depot at will, as you have to ensure the train is empty before proceeding into depot. So I suspect it was considered easier to terminate everything at HOTH.

Where Wembley is available a limited service will always be run through to provide connections with the Jubilee line, even if the service status is 'Part Suspended Harrow-Aldgate' or suchlike. Getting dumped at Harrow really isn't great for onward connections.

[metman]

From Harrow there is the 182 bus to get (a very long route) to Wembley Park or the Chiltern to Marylebone if it happens to the be running.

Definatley not great connections especially the bus!

[downdc]

Thanks so much for the thorough, detailed and insightful responses. Veering off topic slightly but still on the subject of amended service, I travelled Croxley-HOTH yesterday and on the way saw a southbound fast service which then reversed on platform 2 shortly before the southbound Chiltern arrived. As today’s service is amended rather than perturbed as such, will this move be happening regularly? I enjoy the nowadays relatively rare thrash up and down the main lines and I also like using unusual track…

[MoreToJack]

Jul 10, 2022 17:38:40 GMT downdc said:

Thanks so much for the thorough, detailed and insightful responses. Veering off topic slightly but still on the subject of amended service, I travelled Croxley-HOTH yesterday and on the way saw a southbound fast service which then reversed on platform 2 shortly before the southbound Chiltern arrived. As today’s service is amended rather than perturbed as such, will this move be happening regularly? I enjoy the nowadays relatively rare thrash up and down the main lines and I also like using unusual track…

Yes, 2tph Harrow-Amersham via Main Line booked all weekend.

2tph Harrow-Chesham all stations, 4tph Harrow-Watford and 6tph Harrow-Uxbridge also running - the Uxbridge service reversing from platform 6 and the Watford and Chesham trains reversing via Harrow siding.

[downdc]

Once again, many thanks!