How things have changed

[towerman]

Talk of WTT70 had me thinking of how much the service has changed since I worked at Hainault Deopt.After the peaks it was a 10 min service Ealing-Hainault/WRuislip-Epping plus the lunchtime to afternoon service White City- Liverpool St-Marble Arch also every 10min.Hainault had 16 off peak staplers,Ruislip had 10 or 12(not too sure),White City had 6 and 1 at Loughton.Also in those days nothing left Woodford Sdgs on a Sunday.

[stapler]

Jul 10, 2022 11:09:41 GMT towerman said:

Talk of WTT70 had me thinking of how much the service has changed since I worked at Hainault Deopt.After the peaks it was a 10 min service Ealing-Hainault/WRuislip-Epping plus the lunchtime to afternoon service White City- Liverpool St-Marble Arch also every 10min.Hainault had 16 off peak staplers,Ruislip had 10 or 12(not too sure),White City had 6 and 1 at Loughton.Also in those days nothing left Woodford Sdgs on a Sunday.

I like the idea of "16 off-peak staplers", but I can assure you there's only ever been one of me!
Useful thought how thin the service really was back then...

[towerman]

When they first introduced a WTT without eight & nine numbers it was a 12 min service on the branches.Ealing-Hainault was numbered 1 to 20,Epping-West Ruislip was numbered 31 to mid 40s the opposite to what it is now.On Sunday afternoons there were Leytonstone-White City push ins which only ran from around 15:00 to 19:00.There were also Leytonstone- White City trains on weekday evenings from 20:00 to 22:30,they reversed at Leytonstone with a main line shunt on the Epping road.

[spsmiler]

When I was young Mon - Sat off peak trains at Gants Hill came every 12 minutes. I also remember there being a separate off-peak local service from Liverpool Street to Marble Arch / White City.

By way of contrast Ilford had a 60 minute service on the fast tracks (Liverpool St - Ilford - Romford - Shenfield - all stations to Colchester) and on what I feel sure were called the 'electric' tracks a 10 minute service to Liverpool Street. However this was actually two 20 minute services interlined - all stations Liverpool Street - Gidea Park and Liverpool Street - Stratford - Ilford - Romford - all stations to Southend Victoria.

As an aside, my understanding is that in the days before the Central line took over services east of Leyton the trains which served the Hainault loop ran every 15 minutes from Fenchurch Street with half travelling clockwise Stratford - Woodford - Hainault - Newbury Park - Ilford - Stratford and half running anti-clockwise.

[towerman]

I was always under the impression that the GNER service originated from Liverpool St loop & Epping services.After leaving Stratford it ran past the big marshalling yard.

[towerman]

Think it was 15 offpeak stablers at Hainault,140 to 147 via G/Hill 150 to 156 via Hainault.

[spsmiler]

Jul 13, 2022 16:06:00 GMT towerman said:

I was always under the impression that the GNER service originated from Liverpool St loop & Epping services.After leaving Stratford it ran past the big marshalling yard.

Did you mean Great Eastern Railway (GER)?

My understanding was Epping / Ongar services from Liverpool Street, but trains via the loop (which was a newer service) from Fenchurch Street.

[towerman]

Possibly,when I started at Hainault Depot there a couple of guys there that worked at Loughton steam shed pre war.

[jimbo]

When Stratford was rebuilt for the Central Line to take over those services, two bay platforms were provided for a remnant shuttle to Fenchurch Street, one later used by the DLR on opening. Presumably the Fenchurch Street link service had been lost during wartime bombing and never restarted.

[spsmiler]

Jul 14, 2022 18:40:20 GMT jimbo said:

When Stratford was rebuilt for the Central Line to take over those services, two bay platforms were provided for a remnant shuttle to Fenchurch Street, one later used by the DLR on opening. Presumably the Fenchurch Street link service had been lost during wartime bombing and never restarted.

As far as I am aware, the Fenchurch Street shuttle never commenced - certainly not with the planned single unit Class 306 electric trains.

This was because of wartime bomb damage in east London.

Jul 13, 2022 14:20:09 GMT spsmiler said:

When I was young Mon - Sat off peak trains at Gants Hill came every 12 minutes.

<snip>

Sorry, I 'mis-spoke'. I used the past tense, but alas when I arrived on the Gants Hill platform today I was greeted by a red 'station departure' signal and the train describer showing that the next train was due in 13 minutes 

Thankfully I had just collected a Metro newspaper

[stapler]

Jul 14, 2022 16:46:47 GMT towerman said:

Possibly,when I started at Hainault Depot there a couple of guys there that worked at Loughton steam shed pre war.

There was never a Loughton steam shed; for what is now the Central Line, that was at Epping, and even had a turntable. Several times the GE considered a shed at Loughton, which was the major station on the line, an even sank a thousand-foot deep well to facilitate it. What your Hainault colleagues probably remembered was the primitive coaling stage at Loughton and (I guess) signing on point where locos rested between peaks. And of course water cranes were also at Loughton, but only for topping up.

[stapler]

Jul 15, 2022 16:09:40 GMT spsmiler said:

Jul 14, 2022 18:40:20 GMT jimbo said:

When Stratford was rebuilt for the Central Line to take over those services, two bay platforms were provided for a remnant shuttle to Fenchurch Street, one later used by the DLR on opening. Presumably the Fenchurch Street link service had been lost during wartime bombing and never restarted.

As far as I am aware, the Fenchurch Street shuttle never commenced - certainly not with the planned single unit Class 306 electric trains.

This was because of wartime bomb damage in east London.

Jul 13, 2022 14:20:09 GMT spsmiler said:

The traditional destination (from Loughton/the Loop) of Fenchurch became a little less desirable by the wholesale destruction of the EC4 area in the Blitz, and with it, the shipping and food wholesaling HQs there...

[oe]

I read in a book ( can't recall the title, author or year- only that it was blue!) that some trains for the loop in the 1920's started at Liverpool St and finished at Fenchurch St.
Tangentially, was the junction from Seven Kings to Newbury Park ever used in passenger service?

[towerman]

Jul 15, 2022 16:33:15 GMT stapler said:

Jul 14, 2022 16:46:47 GMT towerman said:

Possibly,when I started at Hainault Depot there a couple of guys there that worked at Loughton steam shed pre war.

There was never a Loughton steam shed; for what is now the Central Line, that was at Epping, and even had a turntable. Several times the GE considered a shed at Loughton, which was the major station on the line, an even sank a thousand-foot deep well to facilitate it. What your Hainault colleagues probably remembered was the primitive coaling stage at Loughton and (I guess) signing on point where locos rested between peaks. And of course water cranes were also at Loughton, but only for topping up.

I think the ex GER men were given the option of moving somewhere else on BR Eastern Region or move to LT.As Hainault was opened in 1948,when I joined in 1966 there were a lot of guys there that joined after getting demobbed.The New North Road Estate was known as New Bethnal Green as the bombed out families were moved there by The LCC.

[stapler]

Jul 15, 2022 16:58:49 GMT oe said:

I read in a book ( can't recall the title, author or year- only that it was blue!) that some trains for the loop in the 1920's started at Liverpool St and finished at Fenchurch St.
Tangentially, was the junction from Seven Kings to Newbury Park ever used in passenger service?

It was certainly so used when the GEML was disrupted by bombing, and the Loop was used for the Norwich etc expresses...not sure if any started at Fenchurch?
The GE tended to plan lines with junctions facing both ways for flexibility even if not regularly used- eg the New Essex Lines of 1889 (Southend to Colchester via Wickford, Maldon and Witham) or the proposed Chingford to Loughton loop, that fortunately for the Forest, was never authorised.

[billbedford]

Jul 15, 2022 16:33:15 GMT stapler said:

There was never a Loughton steam shed; 

Not even when Loughton was the terminus?

[stapler]

Jul 16, 2022 10:00:06 GMT billbedford said:

Jul 15, 2022 16:33:15 GMT stapler said:

There was never a Loughton steam shed; 

Not even when Loughton was the terminus?

No. Locos were not stabled at Loughton. They ran out from/to Stratford at the beginning and end of service. This is possibly because of water supply problems as Loughton village in 1856 and before was perennially short of water.