Expanding DLR for B23 trains

[jimbo]

The contract is let for expansion at Beckton depot: press release "Thirty-three of the new trains will replace some of oldest rolling stock, which are more than 30 years old and coming to the end of their design life, while 21 additional trains will boost capacity across the DLR network." And yet "The existing southern sidings will be extended and additional sidings will be constructed to the north of the new maintenance building, making a total of six new sidings accommodating 15 trains when the work is complete." That leaves six additional trains to stable somewhere?

"New trains will provide more frequent direct services to the growing employment centre and cultural hub at Stratford ....." That seems to be the target of the additional trains.

[DWS]

Can the new trains be stabled at Popular Depot ?

[Chris M]

I don't think Beckton depot is full at present, and while Poplar does get full-ish at times I've never seen it completely full and the roads adjacent to All Saints are basically never used for stabling (when I go past).

[DWS]

Are the sidings at Popular and roads adjacent to All Saints long enough for the new trains , as I understand they are a fixed formation of 5 vehicles.

[Chris L]

Mar 2, 2023 22:37:58 GMT DWS said:

Are the sidings at Popular and roads adjacent to All Saints long enough for the new trains , as I understand they are a fixed formation of 5 vehicles.

There are proposals to remodel Poplar depot and roof over it to allow housing to be added. Presumably the layout will allow for the new train formations.

[johnlinford]

Mar 2, 2023 22:15:22 GMT Chris M said:

while Poplar does get full-ish at times I've never seen it completely full and the roads adjacent to All Saints are basically never used for stabling (when I go past).

The roads adjacent to All Saints are regularly used for overnight stabling, and the one just south of the station for off-peak.

The roads adjacent to the station are the same length or slightly longer than the platforms so presumably could be used for new trains. Others in the depot are not.

[jimbo]

To summarise these postings, the general opinion seems to be that 21 extra trains will only need 15 new stabling roads because there are presently 6 unused stabling roads on the system in current depots.

[Chris L]

Mar 3, 2023 17:26:57 GMT jimbo said:

To summarise these postings, the general opinion seems to be that 21 extra trains will only need 15 new stabling roads because there are presently 6 unused stabling roads on the system in current depots.

From memory it is intended that the current buildings at Beckton will be replaced by new build above the tracks. (This was in tender documents I looked at many years ago.)

[xplaistow]

Mar 3, 2023 7:38:02 GMT johnlinford said:

The roads adjacent to the station are the same length or slightly longer than the platforms so presumably could be used for new trains. Others in the depot are not.

The All Saints sidings are definitely long enough for full length trains. They're about as long as 4 units of existing stock although I don't think they're used to their full length.
As for the rest of the depot, there are 5 sidings which cannot take a full length train: the 2 by the washer and the 3 that are closest to the flyover.

[Chris M]

Looking at the air photo, the two sidings by the washer could very easily be converted to one long enough for a full length train, or two full length ones if stabling on a curve is unproblematic (I have no idea if it is or not).
With some reconfigured pointwork and realignment it is likely possible to get at least one maybe two full length sidings on the site of the northernmost 1 or 2 of the group of three sidings.

Spending a lot more time, effort and money it might be possible to retain the same number of sidings but at full length by doing something like:

Note I'm not an engineer and I spent all of 5 minutes on this.

[xplaistow]

This just released IanVisits article contains a diagram of the planned new layout at Beckton Depot. In it, I count 61 berths long enough for a full-length train (not including the maintenence sheds). This would make it large enough for the full B23 fleet of 54 plus 21 of the 55 B07 units. Poplar Depot is already more than large enough for the remaining 34 B07s.

[xplaistow]

OK, having had a closer look it seems I rather miscounted earlier, I can only see 49 berths now. I'm not quite sure how I got 61 before. I can only assume I double counted some of them.

A more detailed breakdown of these berths is as follows:

• The existing southern sidings with their 18 berths remain basically unchanged.
• 3 new double length sidings are added to south of them for a further 6 berths.
• 6 of the existing northern sidings are removed to make way for the new maintenance shed.
• The other 4 northern sidings are lengthened with new access routes and a further 9 sidings are added to the north.
• These 13 sidings consist of 5 single length, 4 double length & 4 triple length sidings for a total of 25.

Factoring in the maintenance sheds allows for a further 8 trains giving a total of 57. This is enough for the full B23 fleet plus 9 B07s leaving 46 B07s to fit into Poplar. This seems doable with the current layout although it'll probably require uncoupling units to make full use of the short sidings. It's likely that the layout there will be modified in due course, especially so if the plan to roof over the depot to build flats goes ahead.

[Dstock7080]

this information released yesterday for staff:

Plans to enlarge the DLR’s Beckton Depot to provide a new maintenance building and expanded stabling capability have taken another step forward with Morgan Sindall appointed as the contractor to deliver the scheme.
Following the arrival of the first of 54 brand-new trains at Beckton Depot in January (the start of the largest-ever capacity upgrade for the DLR) we’re stepping up our work to deliver a more reliable and higher capacity service from 2024.

These major works will deliver a new maintenance building, including a new train-lifting road, craneage, under train access and pits to enable the final assembly of the new B23 trains and longer-term maintenance facilities as more of the new fleet is introduced.
A new test track facility will also be constructed to allow testing of the new Thales signalling system that will be introduced for both the new B23 trains and the existing B2007 fleet that is being retained.

The improved maintenance facilities will help ensure a continued reliable service for customers, while the additional stabling provides safe storage for a growing fleet of trains.
With an expanding fleet, designed to keep pace with growing demand in East London, additional stabling to store the trains is required.
The existing southern sidings will be extended, and additional sidings will be constructed to the north of the new maintenance building, making a total of six new sidings accommodating 15 trains when the work is complete.

[jimbo]

On Thursday 17 August 2023, the northern sidings contractor, Buckingham Group Contracting Ltd (BGCL) filed a notice of intention to appoint administrators. BGCL suspended works on site and stood down its subcontractors. The TfL team enacted a safe stop to ensure the site was left in a safe and secure condition. BGCL have now entered into administration. Parts of the BGCL rail business have been sold to Kier Group, but the northern sidings contract does not form part of that sale. Work is ongoing to develop and consider options for how we complete these works. - TfL Investment programme report - Quarter 1 2023/24 (1 April to 24 June 2023)

Oh dear!

[melikepie]

This is probably more of the same news

www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/new-dlr-trains-on-track-but-depot-expansion-faces-delays-after-contractors-collapse-66755/

[Dstock7080]

Great progress being made by Morgan Sindall, Balfour Beatty and Inrail Solutions at Beckton Depot Southern Sidings as our first sections of rail are installed on AH road.
Southern Sidings will see three new roads (AH, AI & AJ) introduced to the Depot along with two additional elevated walkways.

[jimbo]

Oct 27, 2023 11:03:24 GMT melikepie said:

This is probably more of the same news

www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/new-dlr-trains-on-track-but-depot-expansion-faces-delays-after-contractors-collapse-66755/

But we know 25 trains are now built link

[Dstock7080]

Morgan Sindall has now been appointed to undertake the works on Beckton depot northern sidings project, after Buckingham Group entered administration.