Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 3, 2023 2:28:10 GMT
At least if they give the lines proper names it will get rid of the ‘Goblin’, which I find more annoying than ‘Wimbleware’. Particularly as people so often refer to it as the Goblin line, which yields Gospel Oak to Barking Line line. I don't think anything will get rid of the Golbin name tbh, it will survive as a nickname even if the official name is something completely different - especially so if the official name is bland or unwieldy. Redundant acronyms have been around a long time (cf. PIN number) and while they might annoy pedants it really just signifies that it has become lexicalised and is now a word rather than an acronym. |
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Post by rapidtransitman on Apr 3, 2023 2:28:37 GMT
The GOBLIN name is awesome!
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class411
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Post by class411 on Apr 3, 2023 7:12:47 GMT
Of course, if they don’t go for a theme, they might even retain the Goblin name.
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trainwizard
100 posts in 367 days on the forum. Close enough.
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Post by trainwizard on Apr 3, 2023 7:30:25 GMT
Redundant acronyms have been around a long time (cf. PIN number) and while they might annoy pedants it really just signifies that it has become lexicalised and is now a word rather than an acronym. Another example is LCD display - "Liquid-Crystal Display Display", which is much more common on this forum. I'm pretty sure I've said it too. The point is that such inaccuracies are minor and irrelevant, and the general public will not care at all. PIN number, ATM machine, HIV virus - all repetitive, yet are the norm. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Apr 3, 2023 7:34:46 GMT
I know I’ve said PIN number before I could stop myself.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 3, 2023 19:31:31 GMT
At least if they give the lines proper names it will get rid of the ‘Goblin’, which I find more annoying than ‘Wimbleware’. Particularly as people so often refer to it as the Goblin line, which yields Gospel Oak to Barking Line line. I was hoping that this name would be retained as it is well known and even with the Riverside extension is still accurate. I am also one of those people who think of this as the Goblin line and would like to see Wimbleware shown as a distinct entity. This already happened with the Metropolitan line service between Hammersmith and Whitechapel / Barking. btw, to my eyes Goblin and Wimbleware are on par with Bakerloo - all three actually refer to stations served by trains on these lines. |
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Post by melikepie on Apr 3, 2023 19:36:55 GMT
At least if they give the lines proper names it will get rid of the ‘Goblin’, which I find more annoying than ‘Wimbleware’. Particularly as people so often refer to it as the Goblin line, which yields Gospel Oak to Barking Line line. I wonder how often people refer to the station in SW London as Battersea Power. Or obviously Station Station. |
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Apr 3, 2023 19:40:23 GMT
I was hoping that this name would be retained as it is well known and even with the Riverside extension is still accurate. Arguably it would still be accurate with an extension to Thamesmead. The Goblin would still serve Gospel Oak and Barking. |
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Post by brigham on Apr 6, 2023 8:40:28 GMT
I wonder how often people refer to the station in SW London as Battersea Power. Or obviously Station Station. Has the new station at Battersea been open long enough for a popular naming convention to have appeared? What DO users call it? One must admit, there is an inconsistency in the signage between the two new stations. Nine Elms is given the title 'Station' after the name, but not so with Battersea Power Station. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Apr 6, 2023 10:13:55 GMT
Nine Elms is given the title 'Station' after the name, but not so with Battersea Power Station. Why on earth would you add station to a station's name (unless it was the near site of a very prominent fire/police/power station)? How many railway stations in the country (of any type) have 'station' as part of their official name? |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 6, 2023 10:18:09 GMT
How many railway stations in the country (of any type) have 'station' as part of their official name? From memory of previous discussions on this topic there are two in the UK - Battersea Power Station on LU and Central Station on the Tyne and Wear Metro. |
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Post by Alight on Apr 6, 2023 11:51:34 GMT
btw, to my eyes Goblin and Wimbleware are on par with Bakerloo - all three actually refer to stations served by trains on these lines. I see where you're going with this, however to my mind the "B" in GOBLIN to represent Barking is a bit of a stretch. Incidentally, I know many people are fans of the "GOBLIN" name but I personally find it horrid. It conjures up the association of actual goblins! |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Apr 6, 2023 12:24:38 GMT
Perhaps they should open the naming up to the public, and then we'd have the 'Liney McLineFace Line'.
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Apr 6, 2023 12:26:12 GMT
Perhaps they should open the naming up to the public, and then we'd have the ' Liney McLineFace Line'. Even that would be better than "Wimbleware" |
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trainwizard
100 posts in 367 days on the forum. Close enough.
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Post by trainwizard on Apr 6, 2023 12:52:20 GMT
Perhaps they should open the naming up to the public While you will inevitably get joke suggestions such as Mr. McLineFace, it would help make the process more transparent. Obviously it shouldn't be an online poll that gets the final say, but a well publicised consultation will make the changes more popular. Otherwise the changes will be politicised much more easily if it seems it was the Mayor and TfL made all the calls from the start. Even that would be better than "Wimbleware" On the topic of terrible names, I like to refer to the Charing Cross branch of the Northern line as "Watersea"  |
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 6, 2023 13:42:05 GMT
Even that would be better than "Wimbleware" From what I recall reading the name Bakerloo also caused much angst when first proposed. The ire was for many reasons, including it being seen as somewhat lavatorial. But nothing better could be found, so Bakerloo became the name. I accept that Wimbleware does not please everyone but it could be worse - would Womble be any better? Maybe its on par with the Euston - Watford being called Harlequin? ---------------------- Returning to the topic at hand (LO renaming), I have a question. When will the new names be announced? One reason for asking is that I need platform route guides printing for a station on my model railway and since this will include an imaginary interchange station with the Overground (North London line at the planned Highline Walkway between Camden Road and Highbury & Islington) I think I should delay getting the printing done. |
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Post by brigham on Apr 6, 2023 16:14:00 GMT
The sign outside the station called 'Nine Elms' reads 'Nine Elms Station', not 'Nine Elms'.
Unlike the sign outside the station called 'Battersea Power Station', which only gives the station name.
THAT is the inconsistency.
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Post by cudsn15 on Apr 6, 2023 21:24:40 GMT
I still miss the PIXC (Passengers In eXcess Capacity) on the GOBLIN-especially when they ran it through to Willesden Junction - seeing the perplexed faces at Gospel Oak as it sailed through and the bewilderment of those at Hampstead Heath at the strange 2 car train with luxury coach seats stopping to collect anyone from there to WJ.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 6, 2023 23:13:53 GMT
I still miss the PIXC (Passengers In eXcess Capacity) on the GOBLIN-especially when they ran it through to Willesden Junction - seeing the perplexed faces at Gospel Oak as it sailed through and the bewilderment of those at Hampstead Heath at the strange 2 car train with luxury coach seats stopping to collect anyone from there to WJ. There might be a case for extending the Goblin to Willesden Junction and a new Old Oak Common station when the new HS2 service opens. Changing trains at Gospel Oak can be very inconvenient when travelling towards west London and there may well be sufficient demand for the through service from Goblin stations in north London. This would need another eastbound platform at Gospel Oak and possibly this part of the North London line to be resignaled for a more frequent train service. |
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Post by trt on Apr 17, 2023 11:04:38 GMT
The point is that such inaccuracies are minor and irrelevant, and the general public will not care at all. PIN number, ATM machine, HIV virus - all repetitive, yet are the norm. Naan bread winds my friend up no end. Torpenhow Hill, of course, is a famous tautology. |
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Post by jimbo on Aug 6, 2023 7:25:49 GMT
"London overground line names" Request ID: FOI-1269-2324 Date published: 03 August 2023 link gives vague responses, except: Whether this means different coloured tram lines, or different infil to the orange tram lines is unclear. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Aug 7, 2023 6:40:07 GMT
Personally I would much prefer the mayor to focus on stuff which is badly overdue - such as updating the Bakerloo stock. I do find it worrying that the officially cash strapped TFL is happy to spend a lot of money (£4million +) on naming the overground services.
Fundamentally the "Overground Franchise" is NOT owned by TFL, and just like other mainline franchises when it comes up for retendering it presumably could pass to another operator who just might decide to rebrand stations etc with their own corporate colours and indeed could potentially chose other names.
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Post by jimbo on Aug 7, 2023 7:34:48 GMT
The Bakerloo Upgrade project is being developed, but the Picc new trains are costing around £3 billion all up, so the Bakerloo fleet around £1 billion perhaps. £4 million + for Overground passenger information upgrade looks like small change!
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Post by toby on Aug 7, 2023 8:33:18 GMT
Fundamentally the "Overground Franchise" is NOT owned by TFL, and just like other mainline franchises when it comes up for retendering it presumably could pass to another operator who just might decide to rebrand stations etc with their own corporate colours and indeed could potentially chose other names. It is a concession, with a lot of detail defined by TfL. I don't think the new operator could change these things. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 7, 2023 10:11:14 GMT
The "London Overground" brand is owned by TfL, and the concession is specified by them. The contract for both operators (LOROL and ARL) to date did not allow them to use different branding or rename lines, services or stations - indeed they had no responsibility for marketing or branding at all. The only reasons this is likely to change in the future are either the services being operated in-house (in which case the issue is irrelevant) or control over the operation being removed from TfL by the government.
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Post by d7666 on Aug 7, 2023 16:10:18 GMT
The "London Overground" brand is owned by TfL, and the concession is specified by them. The contract for both operators (LOROL and ARL) to date did not allow them to use different branding or rename lines, services or stations - indeed they had no responsibility for marketing or branding at all. The only reasons this is likely to change in the future are either the services being operated in-house (in which case the issue is irrelevant) or control over the operation being removed from TfL by the government. Or the relevant concession contract clauses renegotiated. |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 8, 2023 11:25:33 GMT
"London overground line names" Request ID: FOI-1269-2324 Date published: 03 August 2023 link gives vague responses, except: Whether this means different coloured tram lines, or different infil to the orange tram lines is unclear. I had began to wonder whether this was actually happening, and whether those of us alive 'today' will live long enough to see it become reality! |
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Post by stapler on Aug 12, 2023 8:32:29 GMT
<<I have heard calls to split the Lea Valley Line, but I think it's more simple to keep them combined. >>
I rather disagree. The Chingford Line has always been that, since 1873; the Lea Valley Line meant the line actually along the Lea to Cheshunt, and not the Chingford Line...
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Post by melikepie on Aug 29, 2023 13:01:37 GMT
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 29, 2023 13:46:57 GMT
Other than posters being put up, the only thing there that is new to me is the statement the network will be split into six lines with e.g. all the routes through Surrey Quays being a single line rather than up to four lines.
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