DLR Extension to Thamesmead update

[trainwizard]

An answer to a question from the Mayor's question time (link) provided an update on the proposed DLR extension to Thamesmead:

To date, funding partners including boroughs, developers, landowners, government departments and the Greater London Authority, have provided c£1.5m for feasibility funding to progress the design of transport options to support 20,000-30,000 potential new homes in Beckton Riverside and Thamesmead. This feasibility work is nearing a single option stage, with a preferred package of a Docklands Light Railway extension from Gallions Reach to Beckton Riverside and Thamesmead combined with a Bus Transit from Woolwich to Thamesmead and Abbey Wood.

Funding for construction is not yet in place. At this stage, Transport for London (TfL) is working with partners to assess the case for the scheme and to define the scheme and its costs. As part of that work TfL is assessing funding options in order to develop the scheme towards a planning application or Transport & Works Act application aimed for 2026. A Strategic Outline case and financial request to Government to contribute to this next stage of work is under preparation and will be presented to Government in the coming months.

More information at ianVisits.

My question is what would happen to Beckton, as the planned extension branches off after Gallions Reach. Will the DLR service be split between Beckton and Thamesmead? 
Also, I know the forum is not fond of bus discussion, but would the proposed Bus Transit be the first "guided busway" in London?

[jimbo]

Probably 50/50 split to Beckton & Thamesmead. The line at Gallions Reach is facing north, so I suppose will take route into Beckton depot with Riverside station before crossing by bridge? tunnel according to Ian Visits.

[trainwizard]

IanVisits includes a quote from someone at TfL who says it will be a tunnel.

But yes, a 50/50 split makes sense. Somewhat similar to Amersham/Chesham, I guess? Although, along that line, would it be possible to have a shuttle from Beckton to Gallions Reach and full frequency to Thamesmead? There's a crossover north of Gallions Reach but I don't think the station's two platforms would be able to handle it.

[Chris M]

The most likely service pattern is Tower Gateway to Beckton and Canning Town or Stratford International to Thamesmead (or vice versa)

[jimbo]

When the current new trains were being ordered, six years back, consideration was given to possible future needs for additional trains. Thamesmead is mentioned, starting with a Beckton/Thamesmead shuttle 22.5tph, followed by a Beckton/Thamesmead to Stratford 15tph, and extra Beckton/Thamesmead to Poplar service 30tph, with possible Barking Town to Thamesmead service in a DLR maximum 36tph and Thamesmead to Abbey Wood extension, a fleet total of 135 trains. link

[jimbo]

I wonder why the DLR is heading for 36tph maximum capacity. This seems to be the current target for the tube lines, other than Bakerloo where the demand does not exist. I would have thought that the DLR could aim higher, with its shorter trains at gap-free straight platforms. A metro option for Crossrail 2 suggested that similar trains could achieve 40tph, if I recall correctly, perhaps even higher.

[Chris L]

Apr 21, 2023 5:34:56 GMT jimbo said:

I wonder why the DLR is heading for 36tph maximum capacity. This seems to be the current target for the tube lines, other than Bakerloo where the demand does not exist. I would have thought that the DLR could aim higher, with its shorter trains at gap-free straight platforms. A metro option for Crossrail 2 suggested that similar trains could achieve 40tph, if I recall correctly, perhaps even higher.

Could it be terminal capacity and boarding speeds?

[jimbo]

We are intending to submit a strategic outline business case to central Government in early June 2023. Alongside this, we hosted both the Housing Minister and Minister for London on site visits to Thamesmead this year. Optioneering is at an advanced stage and includes a new cross-river DLR extension from Gallions Reach to Thamesmead via Beckton Riverside. This would deliver a new DLR station at Beckton Riverside, a tunnel under the Thames and a new DLR station at Thamesmead. This is part of a package which also includes the assessment of a bus transit system, providing a quick and reliable service between Woolwich, Plumstead, Thamesmead and Abbey Wood.

We are working on how a scheme of this scale could be funded and delivered, and, subject to this, an application for consent could be submitted in 2026, with services operating by the early 2030s. [Delivering the Mayor’s Transport
Strategy 2022/23 [Draft] June 2023]

source with map p.203 / 232

[spsmiler]

Beckton Riverside station with London Overground interchange?

It all sounds very reasonable, although maybe the extension should end at Abbey Wood for Elizabeth line interchange - and fast travel to central London?

Otherwise for all sorts of travel passengers will have to change trains 'several times'.

[Chris M]

London Overground doesn't go anywhere near Beckton, you might be confusing it with Barking Riverside?

This project seems to be only considering the option of DLR to Thamesmead and improved bus links from Thamesmead to Abbey Wood and other existing stations on the North Kent line, I'd guess because of cost. Passive provision for an extension is probably the best we can hope for.

[spsmiler]

Jun 1, 2023 1:25:29 GMT Chris M said:

London Overground doesn't go anywhere near Beckton, you might be confusing it with Barking Riverside?

Well they both begin with a capital B ... yes I meant Barking, not Beckton! Apologies for the confusion.

[trainwizard]

May 31, 2023 22:27:02 GMT spsmiler said:

Beckton Barking Riverside station with London Overground interchange?
It all sounds very reasonable, although maybe the extension should end at Abbey Wood for Elizabeth line interchange - and fast travel to central London?

The DLR won't go to Barking Riverside - it crosses under the river after Beckton Riverside. They're still leaving open the possibility of an Overground extension to Thamesmead, however it looks like it isn't being considered at the moment because it would cost more and offer less trains per hour.

As for DLR extensions, ianvisits said there's a possibility of an extension through Thamesmead towards Belvedere. I think the Elizabeth Line interchange should be handled by the bus transit, which goes to both Woolwich and Abbey Wood.

[melikepie]

Don't forget there are proposals to extend the Elizabeth line to Gravesend

[Chris L]

Jun 6, 2023 16:20:12 GMT melikepie said:

Don't forget there are proposals to extend the Elizabeth line to Gravesend

Council dreams not official proposals.

[trainwizard]

Jun 6, 2023 17:58:38 GMT Chris L said:

Jun 6, 2023 16:20:12 GMT melikepie said:

Don't forget there are proposals to extend the Elizabeth line to Gravesend

Council dreams not official proposals.

Not really - it was included as a 'potential' Elizabeth Line in the Mayor's 2018 transport strategy. We're probably not getting it anytime soon, but it's definitely possible and being considered. A better example of council dreams would be that wacky loop extension to Thurrock.

As melikepie points out, it could connect with Belvedere which may have an Elizabeth Line service in the future.

[Chris L]

Jun 6, 2023 20:20:29 GMT trainwizard said:

Jun 6, 2023 17:58:38 GMT Chris L said:

Council dreams not official proposals.

Not really - it was included as a 'potential' Elizabeth Line in the Mayor's 2018 transport strategy. We're probably not getting it anytime soon, but it's definitely possible and being considered. A better example of council dreams would be that wacky loop extension to Thurrock.

As melikepie points out, it could connect with Belvedere which may have an Elizabeth Line service in the future.

Perhaps I should have said workable proposals. Physical barriers and the fact that the design of the trains did not include dual voltage.

[trainwizard]

TfL have submitted their Strategic Outline Case to the government and created a website for the DLR extension proposal to Thamesmead. This includes (website quote):

1. A cross-river DLR extension from Gallions Reach to Thamesmead via Beckton Riverside. This would connect 2 opportunity areas and 4 development sites, including a:

• New DLR station at Beckton Riverside
• Tunnel under the River Thames
• New DLR station at Thamesmead
  

2. A bus transit scheme using dedicated infrastructure from Woolwich to Abbey Wood via Thamesmead.

This would improve local connectivity and capacity in the wider Thamesmead area, including affordable, accessible and frequent connections to the Elizabeth line and DLR services.

As for when we may see this, the website states that, with government capital funding, construction can begin as early as 2028, aiming for an opening in the early 2030s. Seems like quite an optimistic estimate.