towerman
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Post by towerman on May 16, 2023 9:56:27 GMT
Was this envisaged when the depot was built? How was there so much undercover space? Possibly as they put in a connection to the main line.When the 62TS was on the Central Ruislip didn’t do any planned lifting maintenance only casualty lifts.All programme lifts were done at Hainault.On the WTT at the time a depot almost as big as Neasden only put 14 trains into service,most of the room was taken up by new/scrap stock. |
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Post by tjw on May 17, 2023 8:54:40 GMT
I see this term 'Unbraked' being used, I am sure unbraked trains / stock were banned by the Railway Inspectorate sometime in the 1800's.
Good trains / stock are described in the c. 1960 BR rule book as either being fitted, piped, or unfitted.
Fitted trains have a continuous brake originally vacuum lately air, this can be applied from the locomotive or the brake van.
Piped stock only has hand brakes that are applied manually, but have a brake pipe to allow the connection of a continuous brake down the train so fitted wagons in a mixed train will have a continous brake.
Unfitted stock has only the manual hand brakes.
Did the GC or LNWR use the term 'unbraked' instead of the rule book term unfitted?
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on May 17, 2023 9:56:24 GMT
The air brake and vacuum brake were both developed around the same time in the 1800's.
The term "unfitted" was used for rail vehicles not fitted with the automatic brake. The term "unbraked" was also used. The other term used was "loose coupled". A "loose coupled" freight train would have 3-link couplings or instanter couplings set to the long position and run as an "unfitted train" with braking only on the loco and brake van.
I can't think of any rail vehicles that are "unbraked", i.e. not having any form of brake, the exception being if the automatic brake is defective and is isolated or the handbrake is broken. Such vehicles would be "green carded" or "red carded", fit to trvel to the nearest place of reapair or unfit go go anywhere.
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Post by Hutch on May 17, 2023 11:59:14 GMT
I can't think of any rail vehicles that are "unbraked", i.e. not having any form of brake, the exception being if the automatic brake is defective and is isolated or the handbrake is broken. Such vehicles would be "green carded" or "red carded", fit to trvel to the nearest place of reapair or unfit go go anywhere. Surprisingly most railway passenger carriages are unbraked without their automatic brakes connected, i.e. they do not have a handbrake. Splitting passenger trains has to be done carefully so that no carriage is ever left without being connected to either a locomotive or a brakevan. Can make a shunting plan rather torturous as I know first hand. |
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Post by d7666 on May 17, 2023 16:28:51 GMT
I think this now is simply an argument over the term unbraked or unfitted.
Both terms apply to A60 delivery.
I merely used the term unbraked because I continued with what was written in preceding discussions. I think it is clear from context what is meant, this is a general discussion forum not a committee writing a rule book. And, yes, the vast majority of UK passenger vehicles are - in the correct use of the term - unbraked when disconnected from their automatic continuous brake system, be it loss of pneumatic or electrical continuity. This applies to most EMU vehicles, main line and LU, as well as loco hauled stock.
w.r.t. this specific thread, moving A60 from "somewhere in the Sheffield area" to any LU depot contains unbraked vehicles, as, from above not every A60 car has a hand brake. Since the steam locos or, at the time, available diesel locos had only vacuum train brakes, the train was unfitted. So an unfitted train of mostly unbraked vehicles. In turn, there are operating differences between a train of unfitted but braked (handbrake) vehicles to those that are unfitted containing many unbraked (no handbrake) vehicles.
The same applies today - not every S-stock car has a handbrake. Nor any other LU stock type you care to name. Therefore, they are mostly unbraked vehicles once auto braking continuity is lost. Even if the hauling loco supplies air to S-stock, once that air is lost, your train is unbraked for the most part.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 17, 2023 16:39:00 GMT
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Post by d7666 on May 17, 2023 16:48:00 GMT
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Post by d7666 on May 17, 2023 21:06:25 GMT
After commissioning at Ruislip Depot, A stock did test runs to and from North Acton. This was before delivery via Ealing Broadway link to District Line. I believe the Central Line west end still maintains surface stock clearance for track maintenance machines from Ruislip.
But surely surface stock size track machines could more simply enter Ruislip depot from the link off the Met line without any need for the Central to maintain surface gauge ? |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on May 17, 2023 21:49:09 GMT
They can work on Central Line tracks in that area. Also useful for test runs. The Ealing Broadway connection to DIstrict Line is long gone.
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on May 18, 2023 8:42:25 GMT
After commissioning at Ruislip Depot, A stock did test runs to and from North Acton. This was before delivery via Ealing Broadway link to District Line. I believe the Central Line west end still maintains surface stock clearance for track maintenance machines from Ruislip.
But surely surface stock size track machines could more simply enter Ruislip depot from the link off the Met line without any need for the Central to maintain surface gauge ? There was no Central/Picc link at Ruislip until the 1970s, so it postdates the period we were talking about |
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Post by d7666 on May 18, 2023 14:30:52 GMT
But surely surface stock size track machines could more simply enter Ruislip depot from the link off the Met line without any need for the Central to maintain surface gauge ? There was no Central/Picc link at Ruislip until the 1970s, so it postdates the period we were talking about I think you have confused what I was responding to : QUOTE I believe the Central Line west end still maintains surface stock clearance for track maintenance machines from Ruislip UNQUOTE words that you did quote in your reply. I was refering to Central still retaining surface gauge. Indeed I myself said 1970s upthread for the link. |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on May 19, 2023 3:04:10 GMT
Was this envisaged when the depot was built? How was there so much undercover space? Possibly as they put in a connection to the main line.When the 62TS was on the Central Ruislip didn’t do any planned lifting maintenance only casualty lifts.All programme lifts were done at Hainault.On the WTT at the time a depot almost as big as Neasden only put 14 trains into service,most of the room was taken up by new/scrap stock. I presume the depot was always planned for Ruislip, even when the line terminus was to be at Denham. But would the main line connection have then been at Denham, or still direct into Ruislip depot? |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on May 19, 2023 10:55:45 GMT
They had a 3 road cleaning shed at Ruislip that was never used,all exterior cleaning was done at Hainault.
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Post by spsmiler on May 20, 2023 10:41:50 GMT
An answer from an unexpected source!
British Railway Modelling magazine (June 2023 issue) features an N gauge layout where one of the trains depicts newly-built A stock being hauled by a steam locomotive at the Yorkshire end of its journey from Cravens of Sheffield to LT via the GC route.
The magazine cover even includes a small part of an A stock train - the full image can be seen inside!
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Post by 1018509 on May 20, 2023 19:19:28 GMT
They had a 3 road cleaning shed at Ruislip that was never used,all exterior cleaning was done at Hainault. When I started on the underground in 1971 as a lowly train cleaner these 3 roads, A, B and C were used for external cleaning and a gang of lady cleaners washed the interiors. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on May 21, 2023 10:48:37 GMT
Sure when I was at Hainault we never got any exterior cleaning numbers from Ruislip.
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Post by t697 on May 21, 2023 20:11:48 GMT
I recall 73TS and later stocks being commissioned at Ruislip and again that was in the main shed, not the 3 road cleaning shed, usually known as the Acid Shed. I'm sure 62TS were indeed being cleaned there when I worked on the ETT!
ETT or Experimental Tube Train was the last two 73TS double-ender units. Each fitted initially with DC chopper equipments and odd control desks. Only one 3 car saw service - on Hainault/Woodford - before both were reverted to standard 73TS and belatedly joined the Piccadilly line fleet.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on May 21, 2023 20:52:22 GMT
I stand corrected.
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