Piccadilly line - Slow approach to stations

[A60stock]

I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but why do Piccadilly line drivers approach/enter stations (on the whole), at a considerably slower pace compared to other lines? I understand ATO lines are difficult to compare to as they will always approach at the max speed possible, but comparing this with other manually driven lines e.g. Most of the Met and all of the Bakerloo, it's noticeable that the 73 stock pulls in quite gently. For a fair comparison, as I know the S stock is much newer, the 72 stock (even older), rushes in most of the time like there is no tomorrow!

[Dstock7080]

The Piccadilly is quite a ‘junior’ in terms of seniority Line, with few staff having long service; (although one has recently completed 50years service, aged 73!), with the inexperienced tending to become cautious about the consequences for SPADs and platform overruns.

(an Upminster driver also completes 50years service this weekend!)

[croxleyn]

Some years ago during an engineering group visit to Northumberland Park Depot, we were allowed a stint on the Victoria Line driving simulator. Being the last to go, I was able to watch everyone else, and realise that the simulation was set up to expect the op to reduce speed into the platform portal, put gentle power back on for about 1/3rd of the platform then slow to a halt. Perfect!

[zbang]

Not sure it matters, but are the approach profiles different? That is, does the Picc have a steeper rise leading up to the station?

[AndrewPSSP]

I never noticed it before but now you mention it, they do seem rather more sluggish to go in than other lines!

I suppose the benefit is a slightly gentler stop... ?

[Chris M]

Another difference that is possible is the braking systems and performance of the trains. I have no idea how different they are in practice but a 113m train with 56 wheels is unlikely to handle identically to a 106m train with 48 wheels.

[A60stock]

I assumed the approaches in part may be something to do in part with the 73 stock. They used to pull in quicker back in the day, especially pre refurb.

[Dstock7080]

1973 Tube Stock were refurbished over 20yrs ago, are you now suggesting the slowness you’ve noticed has been present since then?

[Tom]

Sept 2, 2023 10:58:06 GMT A60stock said:

I assumed the approaches in part may be something to do in part with the 73 stock. They used to pull in quicker back in the day, especially pre refurb.

Based on the date of birth on your profile, I doubt you will have strong memories of the performance of pre-refurbishment 1973 stock. I had several cab rides in them during my work experience in the late 1990s and I don't remember much about how they performed compared to a refurbished unit!

[A60stock]

Sept 2, 2023 13:13:03 GMT Dstock7080 said:

1973 Tube Stock were refurbished over 20yrs ago, are you now suggesting the slowness you’ve noticed has been present since then?

Of course not, purely speculation (I was too young to remember the stock pre refurb but youtube videos were what I was basing this on), but I have noticed this for some years, although not 20! I would say the last 10 for sure.

I just wanted to see if there was someone who has a certain answer to whether its something to do with the 73 stock (given its age - although the 72 stock is older, they pull in at some speed!).

Guess when the 2024 stock is fully in service, maybe this might help as a comparison.

[t697]

Since the autumn a few years ago when a big proportion of 73TS were stopped with flatted wheels there have been several initiatives to ameliorate things including their own RAT dispensing Sandite in leaf fall areas and better diagnosis and rectification of braking issues.
I think also training on defensive driving has improved and this may result in more cautious station approaches than in some earlier years. The 73TS available service brake rate is basically the same as all the other LUL fleets. There are only 4 discrete steps though so it is not as finely graduable as on more recent fleets.