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Post by scheduler on Apr 10, 2024 19:08:07 GMT
72 stock with shoes removed will be guided by engineering battery locos for power at either end. These locos are Central Line signalling compliant. It will probably operate in Eng Hours anyway, but that's the way they can round the compliance issues.
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,198 
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Post by Tom on Apr 10, 2024 21:07:01 GMT
72 stock with shoes removed will be guided by engineering battery locos for power at either end. These locos are Central Line signalling compliant. It will probably operate in Eng Hours anyway, but that's the way they can round the compliance issues. It will need to work in Engineering Hours as I expect a 7 car 1972 stock train top and tailed by battery locos will likely be over length. |
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Post by rs2ooo on Apr 11, 2024 9:21:08 GMT
Running the 72TS has been extensively explored but cannot be made to work.
The Tamper (now with relevant approvals) will be working all areas between North Acton and Leytonstone within a 2 week programme that commenced last night aiming to lift all remaining TSRs.
Probably a need to run the TRV as well, so the data its able to exctract (gauging) can be combined with the Tamper's measuring data (cant) to create the full dataset required to achieve ultimate removal of the TSRs.
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Post by imran on Apr 11, 2024 9:28:58 GMT
Went on the Central Line yesterday. The TSRs I experienced were:
Leyton to Stratford Westbound.
Between Stratford and Mile End both directions.
Between Mile End and Bethnal Green both directions.
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Post by rs2ooo on Apr 11, 2024 9:58:33 GMT
Went on the Central Line yesterday. The TSRs I experienced were: Leyton to Stratford Westbound. Between Stratford and Mile End both directions. Between Mile End and Bethnal Green both directions. All of these are in the current programme of works and all going well will have been fully recorded by 18/04. Whether TSRs can be lifted immediately will depend on the resulting data. |
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Post by xtmw on Apr 11, 2024 10:40:02 GMT
I believe the current TSRs are
Loughton pointwork both roads
Woodford pointwork both roads
Newbury Park area O/R
Leytonstone - Leyton W/B
Leyton - Stratford W/B
Stratford - Mile End both roads
Bethnal Green - Mile End E/B
Queensway - Lancaster Gate E/B
Shepherd's Bush - White City W/B
North Acton - East Acton E/B
I believe there's a few more in the western end of the line but I don't have the current list to hand. All TSRs are TSR3 except for Newbury Park O/R and Shepherd's Bush to White City W/B
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
Posts: 210
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Post by gefw on Apr 11, 2024 10:40:54 GMT
The Tamper (now with relevant approvals) will be working all areas between North Acton and Leytonstone within a 2 week programme that commenced last night aiming to lift all remaining TSRs. Probably a need to run the TRV as well, so the data its able to exctract (gauging) can be combined with the Tamper's measuring data (cant) to create the full dataset required to achieve ultimate removal of the TSRs. God bless the one remaining old Tube gauge Plasser tamper !! Fingers crossed for the Technology on that holding out. |
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Post by xtmw on Apr 11, 2024 10:48:09 GMT
TSRs implemented on Northern and Jubilee imminently
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Post by imran on Apr 11, 2024 11:10:48 GMT
TSRs implemented on Northern and Jubilee imminently If that’s the case, then it’s best to make a separate thread on the topic! |
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Post by xtmw on Apr 11, 2024 11:38:46 GMT
Yes - The mods will be able to split this into most likely the general discussion/signalling and track section as it concerns multiple lines. Although I'm the OP I don't have the power to move this into another section. I've modified the thread title.
Mod comment (Dstock7080) done for you
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Post by rs2ooo on Apr 11, 2024 12:02:09 GMT
The Tamper (now with relevant approvals) will be working all areas between North Acton and Leytonstone within a 2 week programme that commenced last night aiming to lift all remaining TSRs. Probably a need to run the TRV as well, so the data its able to exctract (gauging) can be combined with the Tamper's measuring data (cant) to create the full dataset required to achieve ultimate removal of the TSRs. God bless the one remaining old Tube gauge Plasser tamper !! Fingers crossed for the Technology on that holding out. Not without stripping off all the protruding tamping equipment and hydraulics to achieve gauge. In its current state it can do nothing but measuring runs and will need reassembly for any future tamping activities. |
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Post by jacks on Apr 11, 2024 16:02:40 GMT
TSRs implemented on Northern and Jubilee imminently More than what's already in place? The Northern has had some for a few weeks already The ones I've noticed are Waterloo to Kennington in both directions Tooting Broadway to Morden southbound Morden to Tooting Bec northbound Currently a max speed of 25mph on these sections at the moment |
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Post by xtmw on Apr 11, 2024 16:19:54 GMT
Apologies I should have specified. I meant to say that there are already TSRs on the Northern, with the Jubilee following shortly
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
Posts: 210
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Post by gefw on Apr 11, 2024 16:59:08 GMT
Yes - The mods will be able to split this into most likely the general discussion/signalling and track section as it concerns multiple lines. Although I'm the OP I don't have the power to move this into another section. I've modified the thread title. Mod comment (Dstock7080) done for you Interesting call this one (akin to who will be taking the Bill for LCH/excess journey time). Defo not Signalling problem - they just implement the TSRs requested by Track. Track will undoubtedly say not their problem because the track is probably OK - just it can't be verified via a service provided by others. So it comes down to the Track Recording Vehicle being the route cause - A fleet Asset? But if its down to a lack of spare parts could Stores & Logistics be the route cause ? The good news seems to be that they have narrowed down the problem to one of the track features measured (Cant) - Now hunting for the fix /spare part/ or redesign. |
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Post by rs2ooo on Apr 12, 2024 8:23:22 GMT
A piece of work commencing Tues 16th aiming to start clearing the NL TSRs. This should be completed early May.
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Post by xtmw on Apr 12, 2024 10:34:53 GMT
Good to know work is finally being done to resolve the TSRs. Although it shouldn't have got to this point.
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Post by spsmiler on Apr 12, 2024 11:00:32 GMT
Interesting call this one (akin to who will be taking the Bill for LCH/excess journey time). Defo not Signalling problem - they just implement the TSRs requested by Track. Track will undoubtedly say not their problem because the track is probably OK - just it can't be verified via a service provided by others. So it comes down to the Track Recording Vehicle being the route cause - A fleet Asset? But if its down to a lack of spare parts could Stores & Logistics be the route cause ? The good news seems to be that they have narrowed down the problem to one of the track features measured (Cant) - Now hunting for the fix /spare part/ or redesign. Interesting comments re: which 'cost centre' should bear the burden of the financial implications of the problems being discussed in this thread. I have a question which might be better if split off to a new thread. Was it always like this? ie: have there always been all these (competing?) cost centres - even in the days before the formation of the LPTB? or were the financial implications of issues that affect the service and cause increased (and / or unexpected) operating costs managed differently? |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,198
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Post by Tom on Apr 13, 2024 8:14:31 GMT
Yes, but they weren't known as Cost Centres as such. There was always an attribution process for delays.
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
Posts: 210
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Post by gefw on Apr 14, 2024 8:08:46 GMT
Yes, but they weren't known as Cost Centres as such. There was always an attribution process for delays. I think the situation started changing some 20 or 30 yrs ago with the pressure for TFL to be more "Businesslike " with many emotive steps such as outsourcing of buses, PFI/PPP, Outsourcing of many & various works & services, Senior Manager Performance related pay/bonuses etc etc But this is liable to get political very quickly - so lets not go there |
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towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,970
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Post by towerman on Apr 14, 2024 11:45:07 GMT
Remember the old days LT had it’s own food production centre at Croydon,they even employed their own rat catcher.Don’t mean Croydon had it’s own rat catcher,guy used to go round system when vermin reported.
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Post by xtmw on Apr 21, 2024 10:17:21 GMT
TRV was seen on the Central line either Fri or Sat so fingers crossed...
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Post by rs2ooo on Apr 24, 2024 12:25:51 GMT
Tamper measuring runs (CEN) are completed and Tamper has been rebuilt to Tamp again, so there's 2 more actual Tamping shifts to complete the programme.
Then the data is combined with the TRV run data for analysis, followed by removal of the TSRs, so still a little bit more waiting, but getting very close now.
Northern Line work is delayed following an operational issue elsewhere on the network that reduced the working window and prevented full scope being achieved, so now expected to take until end of May, but hopefully some TSRs associated with the scope that was achieved, plus scope planned to be achieved next week are to be lifted sooner, if not already.
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Post by rs2ooo on Apr 26, 2024 13:47:34 GMT
Lifting of individual CEN TSRs has now commenced.
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Post by plasmid on Apr 26, 2024 16:03:30 GMT
Lifting of individual CEN TSRs has now commenced. Great news! |
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Post by xtmw on Apr 26, 2024 16:15:00 GMT
Great news indeed. I'd like to thank the hard working engineers (if any are reading) as they were without a doubt working around the clock to remove the TSRs where possible. I'd also like to thank rs2ooo for keeping us in the loop with this whole situation ! Maybe management will invest in a new TRV as the current one, I believe, is on the verge of falling apart... |
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gefw
Gone - but still interested
Posts: 210
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Post by gefw on Apr 26, 2024 17:38:54 GMT
Great news indeed. I'd like to thank the hard working engineers (if any are reading) as they were without a doubt working around the clock to remove the TSRs where possible. I'd also like to thank rs2ooo for keeping us in the loop with this whole situation ! Maybe management will invest in a new TRV as the current one, I believe, is on the verge of falling apart... I hope their has been realisation all the way up the Management chain regarding the perilous position LUL are in with life expired kit & particularly with Obsolescence of electronic/computer based equipment. |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 26, 2024 19:19:34 GMT
Plans for a replacement for the TRV have been in development for some time. How far has that got? At the same time, TfL have been warning that reliability is falling system wide with insufficient funding for capital renewals. There is no long-term funding provided for multi-year projects. Government provided only half of what was asked for this year, and that deal ends in March.
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Post by xtmw on Apr 26, 2024 20:37:15 GMT
I believe there is a substitute for the TRV. Kinda...
There's ATMS (Automatic Track Management system) fitted on the S7, S8, 1972 and 2009 stocks.
Very few trains are fitted with ATMS, only around 2 or 3 on each stock. It runs in passenger service when needed. There were plans to put ATMS onto the 1992 stock (inc W&C stock), but this was scrapped. This isn't a replacement for the TRV as it is capable of alot more
Looking at several TfL documents there hasn't been movement in this area since 2021 although it briefly touches on RTM (Remote Track Monitoring)
Something needs to happen with the TRV sooner or later as it ran into traction faults a few months ago and the onboard computer was failing. It appears to have been fixed but for how long? Has the TRV causing a headache finally caught the eye of management to warrant action?
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Post by jimbo on Apr 26, 2024 21:58:33 GMT
Tender evaluation of track geometry measuring equipment is underway with contract award scheduled for mid 2022. The project will mount the equipment on two sets of host wagons, to be hauled by battery locomotives across the network, replacing a single, life-expired track recording vehicle currently in operation, doubling recording capability. Slow progress in procuring this replacement capability meant modification was needed to the existing vehicle following commissioning of new signalling on the sub-surface lines. With this work now complete, a new project will explore allowing the vehicle to operate on the Bakerloo and Jubilee lines without need for special operating measures. A further project will overhaul the Central line fleet DC traction motors, due to delays in the CLIP full production phase when these motors will be replaced by more reliable AC equivalents. (Source TfL Programmes and Investment Committee on 15 December 2021) |
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Post by miff on Apr 26, 2024 21:58:45 GMT
With hindsight (that wonderful thing, never available at the time you actually need it) was it a good decision to abandon the AIT project?
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